Boycott Wal-Mart for K40 Processing!

[ccortez]

I hope this thread turns out to be a rational discussion of the future of K40 processing rather than a wacky flame war. But I'm under no delusion that it won't be controversial. I do hope everyone will read my arguments here as a discussion of economic principles rather than political ones. That said...

I'm recommending that none of us use the film developing services at Wal-Mart or Sam's Club for K40 processing. I will outline the reasons in some detail below, but the bottom line is that it is of more value to us for Dwayne's (http://www.k14movies.com) to stay in business than it is to save a couple of bucks on processing.

Here's some background information:

The prices I found doing a recent search through the forum are 4.24/cart at Sam's Club and 4.88 at WalMart. Dwayne's charges $9.

Whatever you think of Dwayne's is inconsequential if you have your film developed at WalMart since WalMart sends it to Dwayne's. So my little diatribe here is solely about which price we choose to pay to have our film sent to Dwayne's, not about the overall quality of Dwayne's service.

(Although vendor pressure to provide service at unreasonable prices does drive down supplier quality in almost every case.)

Let's call it a $5 difference per cart since we have to mail Dwayne's. Do we get anything in return for the extra $ paid to Dwayne's?

Dwayne's claims next-day service on K40 orders. You may not always get such great service from Dwayne's, but it can only be worse going through WalMart in both directions due to increased handling by incompetent middleman employees and due to the fact that only by sending directly to Dwayne's do they offer a turnaround promise.

Dwayne's gives you someone to call. I don't think there would be any customer service satisfaction calling your local WalMart store to ask about your missing Kodachrome. I understand of course that Dwayne's probably also fails sometimes to provide satisfactory service in this regard, but at least it's possible. ;)

So there are at least two advantages to sending directly to Dwayne's. But maybe neither are worth a thin dime to you, and that's fine.

Now, we don't know what Dwayne's gets from WalMart for each cart of K40 they develop. Knowing a little bit about compliance requirements for WalMart vendors, it would probably be difficult to find out unless you were friends w/somebody at Dwayne's. Let's look at two possible scenerios:

1. WalMart pays Dwayne's less than we pay WalMart per cart of developed film. For the sake of argument, let's assume $4 per cart.

This can't be good for Dwayne's; and as the "only K40 processing lab in the Western Hemisphere" what's good for Dwayne's is good for K40 users.

Why would Dwayne's agree to such a bad deal?

WalMart places tremendous pressure on suppliers to provide goods and services at costs that yield only razor-thin profit margins for the suppliers. Then they require that the price come down every year.

WalMart is the largest retailer in the world and the only place left to shop for a very large part of the United States. The pressure to deal with WalMart means Levi's -- one of America's oldest, strongest companies -- no longer manufactures a single thing in the United States. They moved all their factories in order to meet the demands of pathologically efficient WalMart vendor requirements. Why? Because without WalMart there is nowhere left for Levi's to sell their clothing in most of America.

Dwayne's may feel this same pressure. I have no idea the volume of film they receive from WalMart. But across much of America, WalMart is the only photolab in town and is the first place everybody looks for available services (auto repair, pharmacy, photolab). How many people will find the service available at WalMart that might never even look online to find Dwayne's website?

Which leads us to possibility number 2:

2. WalMart pays Dwayne's more than we pay WalMart for processing, maybe even up to the $9 that we pay Dwayne's directly.

First of all, I wouldn't say this is likely -- especially the $9 part. But I wouldn't say it's impossible either. And even if they pay $9 it's bad for Dwayne's in the long run.

WalMart is the king of the loss-leader strategy. Certain goods and services are sold at WalMart at a small loss to WalMart in order to make it more likely that we buy other goods and services there for which WalMart gets huge margins. (It's the economics of end-times capitalism, which I'll get to a little later.)

Toys are a good example of this. Have you noticed that ToysRUs has closed a ton of stores, reduced capacity and stock in others, and now talks about getting out of the toy business to concentrate on their BabiesRUs business? One of the main reasons is that ToysRUs can't compete with the "Big Box" stores -- WalMart leading the way -- who use toys, especially very popular ones, as loss leaders. WalMart might pay $20.99 for a toy and sell it for $15.99 in order to make ToysRUs seem outrageously expensive for selling the same toy for $24.99.

As a shareholder in a small toy company, I do a lot of research about the industry, and I can tell you that WalMart's behavior is bad for business and bad for consumers.

This strategy by WalMart -- undercutting everybody else's price even if it meant a short-term loss by WalMart -- has allowed WalMart to shutter small business all over the country -- small retailers, independent grocery, pharmacies and photo labs. Once WalMart is the only game in town, they put enormous price pressure on their suppliers which pressure them to lower wages, lay people off, and move overseas in the never-ending search for price efficiency.

Some people might claim that this is just capitalism at its' best. The strong survive, those able to compete make it and those who don't fall by the wayside. But competition based solely on price isn't a strength of capitalism; rather it's a profound weakness and a signpost in economic theory of an economic system on the wane. A strong capitalist economy introduces innovative products that spur new industries and inclusive, high-wage employment. A weak capitalist economy competes on price and branding (how many laundry soaps do you see in WalMart that all do the same thing and cost about the same?) in a desperate attempt to squeeze more profit from the same dollar, driving down wages and standard of living.

Some experts call it a "race to the bottom." WalMart can provide you with "everyday low low prices" because they pay such everyday low low wages. The American government is the only US entity sued more often than WalMart, often in class action suits by employees claiming unpaid hours during store "lock-ins". Many studies have been done that show that WalMart costs states millions of dollars in welfare to WalMart employees not paid anything close to a living wage.

Come to your own conclusions; but at least give it some thought. Where we shop is one of the few things we have control over, and spending money is and always was a political act.

I'll be sending my Kodachrome directly to Dwayne's.

[MovieStuff]

I agree. What I often find ironic is how there will be endless threads regarding top dollar spent on a given super 8 camera or the lastest digital recorder or NLE system or how can someone achieve near HD resolution, etc, and then these same people nickel and dime over processing costs and complain about how long it takes to get their film processed or wonder how many dumbasses are potentially losing their precious roll of super 8 film or whatever. Sheesh. It's not like we have a whole lot of choice here and I see very few people shooting a high enough volume to really make a difference in one's yearly film budget for super 8. Just send your film to Dewayne's and get on with it. That's where it's going to go, anyhow. Why put up with the uncertainty and aggrevation just to save a few bucks? I agree. Best support the only K40 processor left in this part of the world. Walmart will never miss our business.

Roger

BTW: Chris, your WorkPrinter is on it's way to you even as I write this. ;)

[threeinv]

=D> Great argument and I agree 100%! I haven't shot any film since Kodak closed their lab, but I've been debating this issue for when I do pick up the camera again. Supporting Dwayne's can only help to keep the format alive in the U.S., and you avoid the extra time/expense of airmailing it to Switzerland. Plus, the reduced turnaround time and headache factor alone should make it worth an extra $5 per cartridge to send directly to Dwayne's. I've recently dealt with 35mm still processing problems at Target, and I am absolutely sick of dealing with incompetent cashier clerks and crank-em-out lab workers. I cringe at the possibility of my MOVIE film being mishandled, mis-shipped, questioned, or rejected by employees who don't know what it is and aren't paid enough to care.

Thanks for swinging me over the fence, Chris!

--Derrick

[mohican]

I shoot mostly R8 B/W and my spool-film processing is done by various labs. However I haven't purchased anything from Walmart in years for the non-film related reasons expressed in the original posting.

[timdrage]

Walmart are terrifying! And even over here in the UK, huge Asda stores are proliferating, proudly declairing that they're 'Part of the Walmart Family'... family as in mafia.. :evil:

Anyway, I just send my nice prepaid envelopes to Kodak, but if I were in the US I'd send directly to Dwaynes too!

[steve hyde]

Yes - but of course -boycot Walmart. Anyone who does not see the centralization of power and its negative affects going on in the case of Walmart, is not paying attention.

I keep seeing all this talk about the end of Kodak Premium Processing and I keep sending my film to Kodak Premium Processing and getting it back developed. I pay $10.40 for each cart and that price includes processing with the mailer at Kodak's student rate...(??) The non-student rate is 13.00 something... Go that route.

Hope this helps,

Steve

[BolexPlusX]

I read recently that Kodak stopped selling the process-paid K-40 (505-3335) in the USA as of a few weeks ago, but that they are still honoring the existing film in circulation processing wise. (I have a year's supply in my fridge.) Has anybody tried to buy it in the last week or so?

I'm a big fan of free enterprise, but I don't like Walmart in the least. (Actually not a big contradiction: real free enterprise requires competition, not monopolies.) They have a nasty reputation of coming into an area, driving their competition into the ground, deciding that the market wasn't what they hoped, and then folding their tent and leaving a ghost town behind. This is how they became known as "the Merchant of Death". If I had one nearby to boycott, I'd be glad to join in!

[super8man]

You guys are all crazy. The simple fact is this, if Dwayne's thinks doing business with walmart covers their marginal cost of processing each roll we send through them, then Dwayne's is doing very well thank you very much. The fact is, there other business (direct mail order, etc) covers both their marginal and fixed costs. So, my thanks to each of you who mail directly to Dwaynes...it covers my $5 that goes to Walmart.

And to those conspiracy types about walmart, get over it. McDonalds hasn't taken over yet though of course they try.

No, my $$$ are too precious to give away in some misunderstood feel good notion about supporting the inefficient little guy.

Think of it this way. If you owned a workprinter and had a few clients to help pay it off, would you accept someone's business (like walmart) who offered you half the amount you charge but guaranteed a lot of work? I think you just might do it...as long as it covered you marginal costs with some profit factor, the main clients of yours would cover the fixed costs of rent, depreciation, etc.

No, I work too hard for my money to piss it away for a feel good factor.

Cheers,
m

[Nigel]

No one is holding a gun to Dwayne's head tell them that they must develop film for Wal-Mart. They agreed to the terms because they felt that they could benefit---Otherwise they would have said "NO".

I will continue to use Wal-Mart for k40 because it is cheap and I know the service is decent.

Everyone has a choice under ever circumstance there are always a set of choices. Mine will side with the bottom line when it comes to K40.

Good Luck

[Joe Gioielli]

The point is well taken, but I gotta go with Super8 man here. I make $7.75 an hour before taxes. I just don't feel I need to spend an extra $4 when I can wait for the film to come back.

As for Wal-Mart, I used to own a petstore. Wal-Mart put me out of business. I couldn't beat their prices and went under. It happens. What am I going to do? Stay mad forever?

As for Dwayne's, they made a deal with Wal-Mart. I can only presume they knew what they were doing.

Great topic, very thought provoking.

[FilmIs4Ever]

Are you all sure that Wal-Mart doesn't pay D'Waynes the same thing we pay them, or at least more than $4.88. I can't imagine D'Waynes charging Wal-Mart anything less than $4.88, so it's not like any of our money is actually staying with the Big "W". K-14 processing and Prestone Silicone lubricant (for lubing up all that Kodachrome) are the only products I will ever buy from Wal-Mart. If you wanna make a stand, stop buying cheap Chinese-made garbage from them and Target and K-Mart. At least we're sending the right message to Wal-Mart in that we're getting an American product from them. And we're shooting film instead of foreign video tape. That's not the reason I shoot film or use Wal-Mart though. I'd use D'Waynes if the came down to maybe $7.50/roll of S8 and came down to the same price for DR8.

Regards.
~Karl Borowski

[JoshuaRyan]

I am very poor and my budgets are extremely tight. When buying 10 or more rolls, that extra money matters alot

[steve hyde]

I appreciate the fact that ccortez is using questions concerning S8 processing choices to start a discussion about political economy.

Why not?
I don't think we can take the politics out of economy any more than you can take economy out of politics. There are differences of opinion here and difference is what makes a discussion interesting and productive.

I'll start by saying that I've bought things from Walmart. When I was a teenager I lived in the San Juan Mountains of Colorado and it was the most practical place to buy things. We had to drive for an hour and a half to get there and the last thing I wanted to do was putts around Montrose looking for motor oil or a gallon of milk etc. I would go to WALMART! --but then I started thinking and that's where the trouble started...You can call it a conspiracy theory if you like...

Conspiracy? We all conspire to make profits of one kind or another in our day to day lives...Freedom of choice? Indeed we have it -- when we choose not to "piss away" our money by spending it at Walmart we are choosing to support a specific corporate practice. In a sense we vote with our dollars. By spending them at any given company we are saying - YES - I support the practices of your company. Therefore if you -- choose -- to vote for Walmart, you are also voting for the disintegration of labor unions since Wal-Mart is notoriously anti-union. Even though it's illegal, Wal-Mart fires and harasses workers who want a union; Furthermore, Wal-Mart has been found guilty of forcing thousands of workers to work off the clock and does not pay overtime. Wal-Mart doesn't give workers adequate health care coverage. And workers are unable to pay for their own insurance because they're paid too little. Walmart essentially buys the competition and Wal-Mart hurts union-organized workers by forcing them to compete with poverty level wages and shity benefits. Wal-Mart destroys small towns by putting small businesses -- like our friend Joe here -- out of business by way of these aforementioned business practices. Wal-Mart's key to success has been gaining access to slave and cheap labor outside the United States for manufacturing trade goods. I have made the choice to avoid Walmart and those are some of the reasons why....

Nobody is getting rich off of processing Super 8 -- we know that to be sure, but every $vote$ counts and a healthy skepticism of imperialism is sort of important these days in the good ole' USA.....don't ya think?

Cheers,

Steve

[scott]

I am no fan of WalMart, but I will not boycott them for super8 developing. As a matter of fact, I just picked up a roll tonight, and another is due in this week.

I can't believe that Dwaynes would make a deal with WalMart that would result in them losing money - it just wouldn't happen. The Fuji contract with Dwayes specifies a two week turn-around, so my guess is that they are doing the WalMart film after they finish the direct ship stuff. So by paying $9.00, you are paying extra for a premium service - fast turn-around processing. I am willing to wait 2 weeks (usually less), and my reward is a savings of $5 and shipping.

As far as tracking processing, there is an 800# that you can call that will tell you when your film was recieved, its current status, and when it is due back at the store. In one instance where the 800# had no info, I called Fuji and the film was tracked down in a few minutes. The customer service clerk was aware of Super 8 developing , and told me about the 2 week contracted turn-around.

If anything, I think the word about WalMart processing should be spread. It is so little known, in fact, that the clerk asked me to see the film. She couldn't believe that it was developed by them. Maybe if Dwaynes saw a huge influx from WalMart, they would negotiate a better contract. Dwaynes would benefit, Fuji would get their cut, and WalMart would handle transportation.

But I will make you a deal - When a major studio bankrolls me to make a big feature with super 8, I'll send it directly to Dwaynes.

Scott

[Alex]

I hope this thread turns out to be a rational discussion of the future of K40 processing rather than a wacky flame war.

What gall.

You give arrogant replies to others views on world issues and then you go and write a book about your views even as the above comment ridicules the views of others.

keep up the goad work.