WorkPrinter XP and Serial ATA Drives..to RAID or not to RAID

[super8film]

I'm going to be ordering a new computer system in the near future, and since I've been thinking about buying a WorkPrinter XP, I'm trying to think ahead and optimize my new system for use with a WorkPrinter, particularly in terms of hard drive configuration, in the event that I decide to go that route. I've searched through many previous threads and found some useful information regarding RAID 0 configurations, but it seemed like the jury was still out on whether or not serial ATA RAID 0 configurations work well for WorkPrinter XP capturing setups. That said, I just thought I'd see if anyone has recently experimented with using serial ATA RAID 0 setups with a WorkPrinter XP and whether or not the configuration proved to be reliable.

A 160 GB serial ATA drive is the standard drive included with the computer I'm looking at, but Dell offers an upgrade to a 320 GB system (two 160 GB SATA drives) for a little over $100.

[MovieStuff]

I've searched through many previous threads and found some useful information regarding RAID 0 configurations, but it seemed like the jury was still out on whether or not serial ATA RAID 0 configurations work well for WorkPrinter XP capturing setups

No they do not.

Everyone that I have talked to that has tried to use SATA drives in a Raid-0 for this application has had problems. This is one of those cases where the cheapest thing is also the best thing. A standard ATA drive is plenty fast enough for editing in the DV codec. A Raid-0 of any kind is overkill for DV, except for special applications such as the WorkPrinter. Therefore, considering that SATA drives are more expensive than standard ATA drives, why spend more money than necessary to accomdate the needs of the WorkPrinter?

Ultimately, if you purchase SATA drives and can not synch your computer to the WorkPrinter-XP, there really isn't much I can offer to help you in the way of customer service. Again, for whatever reason, virtually everyone that has tried to use seriel drives have all had problems. The few that tell me "seriel drives work fine" also always end up saying "I hardly ever get a blurred pulldown frame", as if any pulldown frames are acceptable. If you use standard ATA drives in a Raid-0, it will work fine. If you use Seriel drives, it will be a crap shoot and, if you have problems, I will be very limited in what I can do to help because our experience is that SATA drives do not work well in this application.

Now, for what it's worth, I have had a few people tell me that they are getting "acceptable" results using a single SATA drive (with a seperate system drive, of course). But, again, their idea of "acceptable" and mine may be different. They may feel that the occasional blurred pulldown frame is okay but, as far as I'm concerned, you should be able to capture 28,000+ frames (a 400 foot reel) and never get a blurred pulldown frame. Anything less than that is make-do, as far as I'm concerned.

Roger
http://www.moviestuff.tv

[super8man]

Speaking as a user, I agree with Roger - just use two "good ol" 7200RPM regular 160GB drives or similar. Buy the raid card (I use the Promise 4200 I think) and call it a day.

Also, the fact that dell will upgrade to serial (note spelling) ATA is fine but only use that for your system disk and/or storage disk. You will end up with four physical drives in your computer if you do it right. 3 will be OK as long as you have two of them on the raid-0 card acting as a single drive. Still, you will need all four in reality. It's easier for your software to run when it is altering a file on a drive that is not on the system drive.

OK, good luck. Oh, and don't buy a dell. Build your own. It's cheaper and you will get a better system. You are making a custom system and I think you will run into problems getting a pre-loaded bloat machine from dell. Shop at newegg.com for your components.

[murchmb]

Is anyone using a Powermac? I have a DP G5 with a single 250Gb SATA drive on the way. Am I going to have any problems? I haven't seen much info anywhere on Macs in the WorkPrinter world.

My PC's motherboard is fried after a recent storm. If worse comes to worse, I guess I could rebuild it for frame capture use.

[T-Scan]

I've been using 2 120 RAID SATA drives for 6 months with no problems.

[MovieStuff]

I haven't seen much info anywhere on Macs in the WorkPrinter world.

That's because 99% of all WorkPrinters sold are for business and people rarely want to tie up a revenue producing Mac edit suite just to do captures. Most Mac WorkPrinter users end up getting a cheap dedicated PC to capture on.

I've been using 2 120 RAID SATA drives for 6 months with no problems.

While I'm glad it is working for you, I can honestly say that you are the minority, that's for certain. I wonder if one brand of SATA drives works better than another or if any special configuration needs to be implemented? Tell us more about your set up. Do you also have a Serial system drive or is it standard ATA?

Roger

[T-Scan]

The system drive is probably standard ATA.. came with the computer. had it customized with the added Western Digital SATA and RAID controller card. the guys at Fry's set it up for me. since i've synced it, i can only recall one blurred fame in about 40GB's worth of captures. if thats the worst i can expect, than it's fine with me.

[super8man]

40GB is not all that much in terms of captures...each 50-foot roll takes about 2 GB. so that's about once in 20 rolls. In my mind, that's a bit high. I have to agree with roger (and I hate to do that - something about not wanting to join a club that would me as a member) - (just kidding Rog), to even have one streak in the WP capture is one too many. I mean seriously, you can have ZERO streaks forever if you just use the basic IDE drives with raid 0.

Gotta run...my WP is about to finish a 100-foot reel!

[MovieStuff]

40GB is not all that much in terms of captures...each 50-foot roll takes about 2 GB. so that's about once in 20 rolls.!

Actually, a 50 foot roll only takes up about 500 megs or so in the DV codec as an original capture. I would say that T-Scan's results are quite good, especially since a blurred frame can also be caused by a variety of other things, as well. Most likely, his singular anamoly was not caused by using SATA drives. I would say that someone using standard ATA drives may accidently have a blurred frame in 40 gigs and never even see it!

Roger
http://www.moviestuff.tv

[T-Scan]

Right, my 50ft reels with default codec are about 536MB. I was not aware that SATA drives were causing problems with others untill now.. I've been very happy with my results.

[super8man]

ok ok, so I goofed...I was referring to the pulled down size, not the original capture. Yep, about 5-6 hundred MB. Still, avoid that streakin if you can.

Oh, the greatest thing about those big drives is all the wonderful SPACE you get to use up. It;s nice that drives are finally cheap enough where you are limited by your imagination.

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

ok ok, so I goofed...I was referring to the pulled down size, not the original capture.

Hey, you just made a double-goof :lol:

How can a 50ft reel be 2MB after pulldown?

...wait a minute, maybe it has something to do with NTSC and PAL?
Either that or you have a huge pulldown, it sure sounds strange to me.....

[super8man]

now you guys are going to make me get up and look at my bloody hard drive on the other computer...sheesh. Back in a second...

[super8man]

ok ok ok (notice the 3rd ok) - my files are averaging about 400-500mb per 50 foot reel. Then, pulldowns to 18fps average about 700-800MB. I was mixing up my 400-foot captures which are about 1.2-1.6GB before pulldown.

Happy?

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

I´m happy