What makes the Leicina Special so Special!

[Sparky]

Well theres another post about the legend of the Specials gate, and seeing as I had a special sitting in pieces awaiting a donor motor, I decided to fuel the hype a bit more with some pics of the internals of the beast, enjoy:









As can be seen the housing is extremely ruggedly built, and the quality of the parts inside are beautiful- in fact I think it is nicer inside than out- but isn't that usually the way with the best things ;-)

Mark

[LastQuark]

Nice one.

Have you noticed if the grease is starting to dry out? I'm thinking of renewing the lubricant on mine but I will leave it as it is if the lubricant still works after 30+ years.
 

[Sparky]

There is very little grease in the camera at all, and that which I've seen is still soft, but possibly a bit displaced. The manual says to use 2 types of lubricant, but I don't know what they are- they have Leitz part numbers. The areas which were lubed were the two sliding guides for the pull down cam mech ( above and below the shutter shaft in 2nd & 5th pic), the pulldown cam itself on the little oil pad (missing from this camera), the bronze bearings at either end of the shutter shaft (looks like grease), and the sliding parts of the film usage indicator, and a few of the sliding bits of the control knobs on the cover.
The most important ones are the shutter mech- I put a light smearing of special grease on the sliding parts and a tiny drop of special oil in the rotating parts, and the cameras sing happily afterwards!
Mark

[Santo]

Amazing. The Canons and several other Japanese cameras I've taken apart once they crapped out were made of cheap plastic gears and plastic coated wires like a cheap Christmas toy robot you ended up taking apart as a kid. Designed never to be opened or serviced or fixed once it inevitabley broke down.

I took the panels off a Nizo to have a look, and it was certainly better in construction.

But this thing is built like the McLaren F1 of super 8 cameras. I'm amazed. It's a work of art inside and out. Thank you for posting this.

[aj]

But this thing is built like the McLaren F1 of super 8 cameras. I'm amazed. It's a work of art inside and out. Thank you for posting this.

Is McLaren winning any F1 races?

Also remember, this piece of art is broken. Or crapped out as you think others are when they are broken. While they (the Leicinas) are supposedly the best and never do break down.

This is almost like religious followers.

[Sparky]

Sorry we're not enthusing about Nikons Andre.
Technically I suppose its broken- it had a problematic motor, probably from not being used for a long time/stored in damp condition and the commutator oxidizing- thats nature and can happen to any motor!
Actually this one is in very good condition- its only other fault being the slightly fungused VF mirror, but actually you wouldn't notice it from looking through.
Mark

[sophocle]

Damn, this is like watching open-heart surgery on a relative...
Should post warnings--not for the faint of heart .

The leicina "specialness" is just the leica mystique -- not necessarily better results, but the level of craftsmanship evident in the tool inspires one to strive in the pursuit of the art.

[Santo]

"Is McLaren winning any F1 races?"


I don't know, but that car came with a plaque listing the long list of F1 victories which were the car's namesake. And, as you may be aware, the McLaren F1, with only a couple of modifications, went straight from the street to the race track and won the 24 hours of Le Mans -- twice I believe. Completely outrageous. No other car has done that in about about 30 years (the original Ford F40). Ten years or so after its introduction, the F1 still bests everything in every perfomance category, including the new Ferrari Enzo, and examples exchange hands ABOVE what it cost new (about 1.5 million or so according to Sports Car Market magazine the other month). All with a cost no object build quality and performance not seen since the Duesenberg Model J "20 Grand" from the 1920's. You ever seen one up close? With a few of the body panels lifted up? You can literally see why it cost a million bucks.

We are extremely lucky in Super 8. We can own the best for $400 - 500.

As far as this ridiculous assertion that a mechanical item never needs maintenance -- that's completely absurd. Unless it comes from the FORBIDDEN PLANET and was designed by the Krell, everything built by man of any complexity needs some sort of servicing some time. Somebody with a Duesenberg Model J is going to need servicing. Somebody with a Honda Civic or a VW Beetle -- you're going to need to get it serviced!

There is an enormous fantasy that needs to be dispelled. It's that somehow cheap super 8 cameras seem to work after 30 years without fuss or bother and more expensive cameras need servicing and are unreliable. Ridiculous. The reason you read about people on here getting their expensive super 8 cameras serviced is because they are worth servicing. The cheap super 8 cameras that broke down -- what in the world would be the point of servicing them? They weren't even designed to ever be serviced!

Second, and this is something to consider if you're looking at this realistically, how many Canons or whatever (just an example, put your Japanese super 8 camera name here) were sold for every Leicina Special? A 100 to one? 500 to one? A 1000 to one? Let's go with a 100 to one, a VERY conservative figure to say the least. No way it could be that close. But if you had a survival rate of even 10% of those Japanese cameras that "roar to life after decades in a basement" versus a 90% survival rate of Specials that "roar to life after decades in a basement" it sure looks like those Japanese cams are great at this moment, doesn't it? You got all these working cheap cameras around. That's if you don't take into consideration the actual odds involved and aren't able to put things into realistic perspective and realize the extreme vast majority of those cheap cameras are in landfills around the world.

[S8 Booster]

Hmmm... must be the simplest and one of the most overpriced/-hyped cameras ever made. Electrical/tronics looks like home brew from the 60s and the mechanics are as simple as any other German sewing machine. Singer could do better. Makes my Quarz look fantastic by compare.

Not neccescary bad because simplicity makes DIY maintenance simple allthough basic parts like motors should never go down.

R

[S8 Booster]

Amazing. The Canons and several other Japanese cameras I've taken apart once they crapped out were made of cheap plastic gears and plastic coated wires like a cheap Christmas toy robot you ended up taking apart as a kid. Designed never to be opened or serviced or fixed once it inevitabley broke down.

I took the panels off a Nizo to have a look, and it was certainly better in construction.

But this thing is built like the McLaren F1 of super 8 cameras. I'm amazed. It's a work of art inside and out. Thank you for posting this.

Well, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and should do yourself and many board members a favour to stay out of technical stuff that you have absolutely no idea of.

The Nizos seems to be the only cams to break down due to problems with their "plastic" gears.

R

[Patrick]

The Canon 1014E is known as a tough, robust camera. Someone I was talking to used both a Canon 1014E and a Minolta super 8 model in snow conditions. The cold stuffed up the Minolta, preventing it from operating, but the 1014E worked fine.

[Sparky]

Booster snarled:

Hmmm... must be the simplest and one of the most overpriced/-hyped cameras ever made.

Was it really that overpriced compared to its peers?

Electrical/tronics looks like home brew from the 60s

They were using the technology available at the time, and actually its of very impressive quality- tantalum capacitors used throughout (expensive but far longer lived than standard electrolytics) and highbrid ICs of their own (very expensive) design & manufacture- those are the black rectangular things in the pics. The switches used are also of very high quality. I don't understand what you mean by "home brew"- have you seen other electronics from the 70's?

and the mechanics are as simple as any other German sewing machine.

Simple=good. The art of the mechanical engineer is to refine things down to their simplest, most reliable form. That is a very fine compliment that you have given your hated leicina ;-)

Singer could do better.

Are you a sewing machine conoisseur too! Its generally held that the machines of Pfaff and Bernina knock spots off Singers in terms of quality.

Makes my Quarz look fantastic by compare.

Does it? I'd like to see.

(about Santo)Well, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and should do yourself and many board members a favour to stay out of technical stuff that you have absolutely no idea of.

Sorry to rise to the bait but I don't understand why the likes of you Booster, and aj find it so difficult to appreciate the qualities of the Leicinas and insist on making such negative comments and being plain rude to anyone else who dares to appreciate them. Sure you like the Nikons and Canons and why not- I've never used one, or seen the insides of one, but if I get the chance I'll give it a fair go.
Personally I've found a camera that I like a lot and don't really feel the need to go looking for anything else. I won't say that Japanese cameras are crap, or that you're a fool for liking them because you're welcome to your opinion, as I am to mine.

Stay cool,

Mark

[aj]

They were using the technology available at the time, and actually its of very impressive quality- tantalum capacitors used throughout (expensive but far longer lived than standard electrolytics) and highbrid ICs of their own (very expensive) design & manufacture

Tantalum capacitors are appreciated for their low leakage. They are prone to aging and sensitive to wrong polarity. That is why older Durst enlarger equipment with electonics inside is so unreliable and goes up into smoke. One capacitor blows up. Currents change and all of a sudden other are gone too. Typical avalanche.

These IC's are very unlikey for the late 70's. They probably are small printboards with components on them and then sealed. That is why they are so bumpy.

What do want to be them hybrid for? Sounds interesting but everything is analog in these cameras. What could leitz possibly have done digital?

Leitz is known for its mechanics and very very late adoption of new features and techniques. Some people like that. But it is naieve and wasting market chances. These R7 and R8 SLR-cameras are just a joke. 20 years late and overpriced. There is not even a market left.

[S8 Booster]

Booster snarled:

Hmmm... must be the simplest and one of the most overpriced/-hyped cameras ever made.

Was it really that overpriced compared to its peers?

Current status.

Electrical/tronics looks like home brew from the 60s

They were using the technology available at the time, and actually its of very impressive quality- tantalum capacitors used throughout (expensive but far longer lived than standard electrolytics) and highbrid ICs of their own (very expensive) design & manufacture- those are the black rectangular things in the pics. The switches used are also of very high quality. I don't understand what you mean by "home brew"- have you seen other electronics from the 70's?

Well I made some of it myself 60s.

and the mechanics are as simple as any other German sewing machine.

Simple=good. The art of the mechanical engineer is to refine things down to their simplest, most reliable form. That is a very fine compliment that you have given your hated leicina ;-)

You do not know a lot about German engineering do you?
Cheap minimizing - 80% soloutios.
Do not hate Leicina - I hate overhyped hypes.

Singer could do better.

Are you a sewing machine conoisseur too! Its generally held that the machines of Pfaff and Bernina knock spots off Singers in terms of quality.

Exactly - even Singer would top Leicina easily.

(about Santo)Well, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and should do yourself and many board members a favour to stay out of technical stuff that you have absolutely no idea of.

Sorry to rise to the bait but I don't understand why the likes of you Booster, and aj find it so difficult to appreciate the qualities of the Leicinas and insist on making such negative comments and being plain rude to anyone else who dares to appreciate them. Sure you like the Nikons and Canons and why not- I've never used one, or seen the insides of one, but if I get the chance I'll give it a fair go.
Personally I've found a camera that I like a lot and don't really feel the need to go looking for anything else. I won't say that Japanese cameras are crap, or that you're a fool for liking them because you're welcome to your opinion, as I am to mine.

It has nothing about liking or disliking. I know the designs of the 814/1014s down to the very tiniest detail and they are so advanced and thoroughly designed that I since long have realized that it is impossible to post details on this board.

But my statements stands firm. I have the 250 page 1014 maintenace manual in the back and fortunately technologywise it fits right into my daily buzz. You will get nothing by opening one up except get an impression of the complextity. To get hold of the technology built into these cams you need a deep knowledge in technology and to use the manual as sleeping lecture for a looonnngg time. The important thing is not neccescarily what is written in there but what they expect you to understand and derive from what is written or not written there. They expect you [ie the service people] to have a thorough knowledge matching their own in the first place - typically Japanese.

Sure Nikon would have made a very adavances next gen cam too but they gave up the party before designing the new sound cam realising that video would conquer the customers.

Doesen´t mean I do not like other cams. I am waiting for my new 35$ Chinon/GAF ST1200 which according to Martin Baumgarten blows Beaulieus away (for 35 bucks!) Mostly I am curious because Chinon is my "next door neighbour" in Japan.

And I like my Beaulieu 5008 - just have to throw the Schneider lens with its silly motors and put on my new professional Canon 7-105mm zoom

and, of course the Quarz: (not the quarz winder but its cousin)

R

[S8 Booster]

These IC's are very unlikey for the late 70's. They probably are small printboards with components on them and then sealed. That is why they are so bumpy.

Looks like a typical series resistor to me.

R