Am I famous? eBay sellers BLATANTLY using my stuff!

Post by **super8man** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:41 am

OK, my usual motto is live and let live. Though this guy is PRETTY blatant:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... egory=4691

Not one original word or picture...MY WORDS AND PICTURES!

Too funny. He even kept the font. That was nice.

Live and let live. Life is too short.

Cheers,
m

Alex · Post by **Alex** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:53 am

I'll have to disagree with you on this one. Your picture is not a fair representation of their camera. Your words are your words and imply a certain level of knowledge they probably do not posess. (do you have a copyright on your web pages?)

It's completely fair to email and ask them what's up? I know someone who has also had his pictures copied and emailed the seller and told them to take them off, and they did. It's basically fraud and frankly, the odds are higher than normal that the person who did it may be a bit of thief in their day to day goings on.

A civil person would have emailed you and asked if it was ok to use the photos and probably offer to credit your website ("reprinted from Michael Nyberg with permission") a budding thief would not.

Post by **super8man** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:06 am

I agree in many respects...but sometimes you realize there is a big huge ocean of this stuff going on and there is little you can do. The pictures are small enough in this case to basically show what a P1 looks like but not very detailed. So their auction will probably not fly. Though some poor 0-bidder may come along. Hopefully ebay's feedback system is enough enforcement. I was also wondering if he has the box...makes me think I now have to redo all my camera shots to plaster my name across the camera in gradiated-color text to make copying of the image not so easy.

I was reading a while back on the board of some guy selling my Beaulieu battery information on ebay. Again, I missed it and I am sure he is now retired on the profits he made from that venture.

On this one, I will simply watch and see. He has 100% feedback so I find it kind of a strange course of action to take at this point in his game.

He should instead simply use a PORTION of my text to describe what the camera can do, then tell the bidder to go to my website for more info, then add one picture of his piece and say "come on back and bid after reading about this camera" - that would be fair and he may actually pull it off.

Someone other than me should email him the link to this filmshooting board discussion topic - hint hint!

Cheers Alex,
m

Alex · Post by **Alex** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:15 am

I got the hint, "but I don't wanna play sheriff."

It would look like I'm a busybody if I complained to the seller. The seller might even assume I contacted you and if the seller doesn't hear from you my input won't matter much anyway.

Post by **super8man** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:58 am

Yep, not really a big deal.

m

Post by **LastQuark** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 7:14 am

This is against eBay rules. eBay aggressively pursue this kind of behavior and put a temporary ban to the perpetuator.

What I will do is email the seller and let him know this is against eBay rules. He might not be aware of it yet. If you didn't get a reply, report it to eBay.

Post by **boohoo** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 8:03 am

You guys need to mind your own buisness. If the person who owns the site does not care, you shouldn't either. Yes he should have asked permission, but he didn't. Many smart people have come up eith many great ideas and concepts, but if they don't have the money they lose it. This is just a picture and some text. If he changed the text enough to not violate copyright would it be okay? Well regardless of what you think it would be according to the law. Not to mention if he out a refrence in, he would really have protected himself. The auction is probebly being run by a guy who knows nothing about cameras (and citing source). Will he sell more cameras with the same text, probebly not becuse most likely he has one only to sell. I had a nosey idiot report me on ebay for copyright infrigment. After an appeal I won. But thanks to one idiot I had to waste lots of time. I and many others are trying to make a legal buck. We're not selling drugs. MIND YOUR OWN BUISNES!!!!!!!!!!

Post by aj » Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:16 am

One does not need a copyright notice to remain the owner of a text.

If you write a text or shoot a photo you are automatically copyright owner. At home on a notepad or on a wall in the village.

That is, here in Netherlands and much if not all of the rest of the world.

Boohoo: Your own texts are easily to verify as original. It requires a strong effort to put that many spelling errors and typos in such a small text. No one else will succeed.

Boohoo: calling somebody else an idiot? Your point of view stinks and is like turning a blind eye when you notice a theft, burglary, molest. A legal buck by fringing copyright laws? And if the text has no value why would one steal the text? Items with non original text and photo's are attemps of fraud. Who would want to be the buyer of such goods?

Alex · Post by **Alex** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:32 am

boohoo wrote: The auction is probably being run by a guy who knows nothing about cameras (and citing source).

Would you buy from a salesman who didn't know what it was they were selling? What if that same clueless salesman could fake the knowledge by stealing others descriptions, then you would be OK with buying from that person?

What you're not acknowledging is writing a decent description of a product usually means you know how it works on some level. That can add to the bidding price/war because people are bidding as if they think the seller knows a thing or two about the product. It can be considered unethical to post a picture of an ebay item if that picture is not the exact unit you are selling, ESPECIALLY if the picture is of another camera that looks better than the one that is being sold.

As for your other comment about "minding your own business", I already said I would, but are you implying that Michael Nyberg should mind his own business also?

Post by **Lunar07** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 2:49 pm

Alex wrote: Would you buy from a salesman who didn't know what it was they were selling? What if that same clueless salesman could fake the knowledge by stealing others descriptions, then you would be OK with buying from that person?

The beauty of eBay is that it is NOT a Circuit City store with lots of 'knowledgeable' salespersons. Yes, I'd buy from a clueless person, and actually the best items I bought from eBay were from clueless people (An H-16 RX Vario Switar zoom lens for $60 in excellent condition; a multicoated threaded series 8 skylight filter along with a series 8 hood in excellent condition for $2; a COMPLETE set of 21mm threaded filters for $10 - TRY finding a 21mm threaded hoya filter for the d mount bolex lenses - and the list goes on and on). It is the 'knowledgeable' people on eBay that I worry about at times.
eBay is a market place where you pick and choose. The day it becomes teeming with 'knowledgeable' people, is the time where I have to head out.
There is a big difference between a clueless person and a salesperson who claims to know. A distinction you fail to make.
Long Live Cluesless Persons!
Mind yor own business guys

Alex · Post by **Alex** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 3:11 pm

Clueless is as clueless does. Most of those items you mentioned don't have moving parts (with the exception of the lens, and the lens has no motors or electronics to speak of. Where your position falls apart is when people sell items that have electronics, motors, gears and what not and sell it as if they know what the thing does and how it works.

Additionally, text descriptions were stolen without being credited, as were pictures. Not acceptable on a myriad of levels.

Santo · Post by **Santo** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 3:31 pm

I love the clueless on ebay. Not in new retail stores. But on ebay, they are a dream come true.

Usually a couple of short, well thought out emails will clear up the essential questions. And you can figure out if they're being evasive very quickly that way, too. I really love clueless camera sellers with a bunch of 100% feedback. They likely won't be lying.

I love how they list the top-of-the-line cameras they inherited from their fanatic perfectionist professional photographer relatives in the wrong sections and offer vague descriptions. I love paying a twentieth of what they'd go for if they were listed properly -- because the knowledgeable buyer wasn't aware of their existence.

A pox on the professional super 8 camera resellers with 400 dollar starting bids and 500 dollar reserves. Let the market rule. I love watching them get shafted as nobody bids and they have to drop their prices again and again and again in relistings. I love that because I watched them buy that same camera from the clueless under another name last month! You can't hide from Santo!

I love the clueless. Thank you Aunt Tillie! God bless ya.

Post by **Lunar07** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:23 pm

Santo wrote:I love the clueless on ebay. Not in new retail stores. But on ebay, they are a dream come true.

Usually a couple of short, well thought out emails will clear up the essential questions. And you can figure out if they're being evasive very quickly that way, too. I really love clueless camera sellers with a bunch of 100% feedback. They likely won't be lying.

I love how they list the top-of-the-line cameras they inherited from their fanatic perfectionist professional photographer relatives in the wrong sections and offer vague descriptions. I love paying a twentieth of what they'd go for if they were listed properly -- because the knowledgeable buyer wasn't aware of their existence.

A pox on the professional super 8 camera resellers with 400 dollar starting bids and 500 dollar reserves. Let the market rule. I love watching them get shafted as nobody bids and they have to drop their prices again and again and again in relistings. I love that because I watched them buy that same camera from the clueless under another name last month! You can't hide from Santo!

I love the clueless. Thank you Aunt Tillie! God bless ya.

BEAUTIFULLY said Santo! I recounted the other day the story about the woman who sent me an original 22.5mm hood for the d-mount Schneider lens that I have for free because I helped her re-list the Bolex C-8 she inherited from her "fanatic perfectionist professional photographer relative." An item that Henry.com would have loved to sell for $15 or a $20 Buy Me Now tag.
While I agree with Alex on the general outline of his gripe, what bothers me from many guys is the 'dry' way they approach this issue. All of a sudden they start talking like lawyers

Yes indeed, Thank you Aunt Tillie! And may we have more and more Aunt Tillies on eBay. Ameen!

Post by **boohoo** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:28 pm

In response to previous post about copyright. I do think copyright holders should do what it take to protect thier work. What I am against is nosey idiots who are not the copyright holders. If they need to get involved they should contact the copyright holder. If the copyright holder wants to take action they will. In my case I had a person report copyright infringement who was not the copyright holder. My listing was pulled. I then contacted the copyright holder who then informed ebay it was not copyright infringement. But thanks to one idiot my time and the copyright holders time was wasted. People need to mind thier own buisness. Not to mention not everyone knows copyright laws (in thier respective countries) I'll bet many times that nosey person has no idea how the law is really appiled. In the end the so called "copyright infringer" can still sell thier item because they know wthe law. But guess what, some idiot decides to interfere and waste the time of many people trying to make a living. TO MAKE IT CLEAR IF SOMEBODY THINKS THEY SEE COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT ON EBAY, THEY SHOULD CONTACT THE COPYRIGHT HOLDER, WHO WILL THEN TAKE ACTION IF NESSASSARY!!!!!!!!!

Post by **super8man** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 7:02 pm

Bottom line, the last thing I want to do is to discourage potential new entrants to the small format film industry. In the end, its a form of flattery in this case. Yes, conventions were not applied and perhaps eBay frowns on this sort of thing and yes, their actual camera better be in as good or BETTER than condition of the item pictured, but in the end, if another person discovers movie making, it will be a good thing. Now, if he continues to do this, that will piss me off so to speak.

I think I will simply start marking my photos - that's a good approach in this case.

m