Gimme a brighter projector!

[drsanchez]

I think most of us will agree that projecting the original film gives the best quality viewing experience. (please, people. don't argue. you know I'm right) For me, nothing beats seeing my brilliant masterpieces four-feet wide on my DaLite screen.
But, it could be even better if I could get a brighter image. Most of us spend lots of money on cameras, editors, lights, etc. But I would be even more happy to spend the money on a projector that could throw an adequately bright image from 30 feet away. Or a super-bright image from 12 feet away.
What would it take to develop such a projector? A 1000-watt bulb. They exist, don't they? (Xenon for Super 8?) And different fuses or something. And a cooling system like they have for newer computers. Or just a mini-airconditioner.
It doesn't have to be pretty or fuel-efficient, just bright. I know there's a market out there. We've got Paul Cotto providing new stocks. Roger making transfer machines. Everyone and his brother modifying gates to produce the uber-8 format. Please, someone who's qualified, make me a projector! (I'd do it myself if I had any skills whatsoever) I'll pay big money, I swear!! And I know there are others out there.

What do you think?

[Elmogs]

Pay big money? How much money? On Ebay an Elmo GS1200 Xenon Super 8 movie projector sold for $3000.
That is about the right price for one of those beauties. Or you could try and get a Beaulieu HTI Xenon. That will set you back about $6000. Twice as bright as the Elmo I have heard.
As far as bright machines go, the brightest i have ever heard about is the Fumeo 9145 500watt Xenon. Not made anymore these projectors so you will have to find them second hand.
Good luck.

[Ugo]

Fumeo factory, (they are working ...) has the parts enough to assemble last one or two Fumeo 9145 for 8000 euro about (I'm not sure for the price).
Don't forget the Elmo HTI (look the projectors pictures in this site)
bye

[Elmogs]

Its strange because I wrote a letter to Fumeo and asked them if they dealt in Super 8 any longer and they said they didn't. Then Ignacio from Spain, the only person I know who has the 9145 told me that they built him a 9139 stereo with the HTI bulb. He told me that the quality wasn't there like on his 9145 so he said to stick with Beaulieu.
Does that mean Fumeo will make projectors on special order?
Any thoughts Ugo?

[FILM-THURSO]

If you get an Elmo GS1200 you can have a special single blade convertion where two of the shutter blades are removed which increases the light output. I think Derek Simmons (late) at Derann had this done to his machine. Caution though, the shutter action is designed to reduce visabilty of the action of the frame slowing down and speeding up as it arrives and departs from the gate- a single blade shutter might make it more obvious.
As for conversion to a brighter lamp my choice would be to assemble a lamp set up using an external power source so that the projectors drive isn't affect by any possible power drain. I would think and extra extraction fan would be worth adding to the lamp housing. The key here is to minimise the amount of holes and stuff you may need to fit the new parts but essentially don't try this at home kids, get an expert to do it.

[Ugo]

This is not correct. The shutter has to have two blades at 24 ft/s and three at 18 ft/s. The human eye needs 50 time-light for second. If the machine runs at 24 ft/s with two baldes you have 48 time-light: this is enough. At 18 ft/s with a three blades shutter you have 48 time-light again.
For this conversion a good store is:
http://www.ffr-film.de
they use a two blades shutter with blades at 45°. The original three blades shutters have the blades at 50° (first series) and 53° (second series)
Bye

[christoph]

This is not correct. The shutter has to have two blades at 24 ft/s and three at 18 ft/s. The human eye needs 50 time-light for second.

uh, i always thought the 2 or 3 blade design was to reduce the flicker effect to the eye, ie. if you have a sequence of bright (B) and dark (D) phases, a 3 blade shutter will show BDBDBD-BDBDBD-... any if you remove 2 of the blades it would go BBBBBD-BBBBBD-... it seems pretty obvious that the second variantion is brighter, but the dark phase will probably be more disturbing.

++ christoph ++

[pelluet]

Don't know about the theory and the maths but I can tell you that when a GS 1200 is fitted with a 2 blade shutter it looks great at 24fps, a nice bright, steady image but you get flicker at 18fps.

Mike.

[drsanchez]

<snip> but essentially don't try this at home kids, get an expert to do it.</snip>

Yeah, I'm the absolute last person who should be modifying anything electrical. I imagine my last thought on this earth to be: "I wonder what would happen if I cut this red wire?...." That's why this forum seems like a good place to propose such ideas; there are lots of people here who know that one should never cut the red wire.

I envision a Rube Goldberg contraption with a Home Depot 500 watt bulb and a some kind of coolant to keep the whole thing from from melting. Maybe I'm just dreaming.

And when I said I'd pay big money for such a machine, I meant $800 max. That's big money to me. $3000 is obscene.

[Ugo]

a 3 blade shutter will show BDBDBD-BDBDBD-... any if you remove 2 of the blades it would go BBBBBD-BBBBBD-

mmhh.. no, that's not so easy! For avery frame you have 360° available.
By a three blades shutter with 50° blades you have:
70°light - 50°dark - 70°L - 50°D - 70°L - 50°D
By a two blades shutter at 50° you have:
130°light - 50°dark - 130°L - 50°D
So during the projection you have ALWAYS:
LDLDLDLDLDLDLDL....
The difference is in the phase!
Bye

[christoph]

a 3 blade shutter will show BDBDBD-BDBDBD-... any if you remove 2 of the blades it would go BBBBBD-BBBBBD-

mmhh.. no, that's not so easy! For avery frame you have 360° available.
By a three blades shutter with 50° blades you have:
70°light - 50°dark - 70°L - 50°D - 70°L - 50°D
By a two blades shutter at 50° you have:
130°light - 50°dark - 130°L - 50°D
So during the projection you have ALWAYS:
LDLDLDLDLDLDLDL....
The difference is in the phase!

oh i didn't want to imply that the light and the dark phases are the same lenght, what i meant is that you need some rhythmic pattern... if you replace one of the blades with a 30° and leave the other(s) at 50° i'm pretty sure you'd get some flicker.

then again, i dont really have any experience on modifing projectors so this are all theoretical thoughts
++ christoph ++

[FILM-THURSO]

I have a Specto 9.5mm projector in my collection and wouldn't you know it has a SINGLE BLADE SHUTTER!, Extra blades are only there to reduce flicker. You can buy a little 18fps projector made by Cine-Royal some years ago, with a 20w lamp but no shutter atol. The brain does recognise a slight vertical streeking as the film is run through the system but it gives a respectable image non the less but granted you wouldn't screen your latest epic on one of these. Single, double, triple, the choice is yours friends.

[studiocarter]

I bet Roger could convert a bright 16mm projector into Super 8.
MCarter

[FILM-THURSO]

There was some chap got a mention in Film & Video Maker for having bought a whole load of 'new' Elf 16mm projectors that were found in a warehouse (makes you wonder what Super 8mm treasures are waiting to be found) and he converted them all to 9.5mm, I must see about getting my hands on one. They will no doubt be high quality machines.

[Ugo]

Extra blades are only there to reduce flicker

Yes, this is correct! But a good projector has not to have flicker, and with one blade only you have flicker on the screen.
After a long projection with a one blade shutter your eyes become tired!