Fastest lens ever and for always f0.0

Post by **Basstruc** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:29 am

http://www.mudhaus.com/f00.html

unbelievable

Post by **MovieStuff** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:18 am

While the science behind the idea is real, I have my doubts as to whether this photographer is really doing what he says. To my knowledge, Cesium gas does not come in convenient spray recepticles that look suspiciously like compressed air cans. Here's a photo showing the introduction of Cesium gas into the lens.

http://www.mudhaus.com/camera.html

I remember seeing this photo some time back and, if memory serves me correctly, the can in the forground was not out of focus quite so much nor was it almost completely white as it is now. In fact, it looked exactly like a can of compressed air that I had sitting on my desk at the time.

Also, for the principle to work, I believe that the wavelength of the light passing through has to be adjusted to match the frequency of the Cesium atoms (or something like that). Here's a quote from the larger article:

"To achieve their peculiar effect, Dr Wang's group fired laser beams through a trap of caesium atoms. By adjusting the frequency of the laser beams to match those of the energy levels in the atoms, the researchers were able to achieve an effect called "anomalous refractive index." This boosts the pulses' so-called "group velocity" to a speed faster than what we understand to be the speed of light - just short of 300 million metres per second. "

In short, I don't think that any lens is air tight enough and there appears to be more to it than just passing light through a chamber filled with Cesium gas. I am fairly sure that the photographer is merely using this as a form of advertising. Great idea, though....

Roger

Post by **portosuper8** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:43 am

Well it's really impressive. It might give the glimpse of what there is to come after cinema. Maybe in the near future we will be seeing films that didnÃ‚Â´t happen yet. Imagine seeing the film of your death, fantastic indeed. We are waiting for -f1.4 lenses now.

Post by **Basstruc** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:59 am

Maybe Roger... but it's not really kind from you to riun my dreams of vacations on pluton or XVI's century and supersonic skateboards in a year or two...

Matt

Post by **Basstruc** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:03 am

Maybe in the near future we will be seeing films that didnÃ‚Â´t happen yet.

Do you think then producers while stop giving acting jobs to christophe lambert and jean-claude van-damme ?

Post by **MovieStuff** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:14 am

Basstruc wrote:Maybe Roger... but it's not really kind from you to riun my dreams of vacations on pluton or XVI's century and supersonic skateboards in a year or two...
Matt

LOL I know what you mean. I'm still waiting on my own personal jet pack that was supposed to be commonplace by the year 2000.

But, seriously, the idea about using Cesium to gain a 2 second advance peek into the future has some interesting ramifications. Imagine if SWAT team sharp shooters had it in their scopes. They could tell 2 seconds in advance if the bad guy was going to shoot the hostage. However, wouldn't the pre-emptive action of the sharp shooter actually *change* the future that he'd see through the scope? I mean, wouldn't he actually see the bad guy getting shot by the sharp shooter's own gun before he actually fired at the bad guy? Interesting concept.....

I think I'll jont on down to my local camera store and buy some compressed Cesium. I'll just use the photo as an example and say,"See? I'd like something just like this, please..."

Roger

Post by **Juno** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:21 am

ABSOLUTELY LUDICROUS!

Post by **Lunar07** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 5:29 am

MovieStuff wrote:
Basstruc wrote:Maybe Roger... but it's not really kind from you to riun my dreams of vacations on pluton or XVI's century and supersonic skateboards in a year or two...
Matt
LOL I know what you mean. I'm still waiting on my own personal jet pack that was supposed to be commonplace by the year 2000.

But, seriously, the idea about using Cesium to gain a 2 second advance peek into the future has some interesting ramifications.
............................

Sorry to destroy your party guys but peeking into the future and seeing something that is going to happen is simply a myth used by bad science fiction writers.
In Quantum Mechanics the future is a set of potential happenings. Thus the idea of parallel universes. Each 'happening' happen to have an amplitude. The square of the amplitude is the probability of the 'happening' actually happening. All such happenings and their amplitudes is used to describe the state of a system and how it proceeds in time. You must have heard of the Shroedinger's Cat paradox. right? The moment you observe a happening you collapse the wave state of 'happenings' into one observable.
In other words, peek into the future and you project yourself as an observer watching the moment. Truly peek into the future as the photographer suggest and what you'll see is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING since we are going 'to see' a wave function - a mere mathematical representation.
The photographer is using the whole thing as an advertisement. For people who know their science, it is a bad representation of science, and it is cheesy.

Now let us turn into the issue with this camera and f/0.0 lens. What the lens sees and collects are photons that have already been reflected off a surface. Right? Right! Thus these photons already have information associated with some past. No amount of processing - cesium or otherwise - will alter this fact. What we can alter is PRECISELY the information carried with these photons travelling AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT till they encounter that cesium entrapment. Right? Right! So we are already processing something that had happened in the past, NOT the future. If anyone claims otherwise then they are claiming that the photon travelling at the speed of light with some information has the capability of reading the future of the body it left just because it happens to go through some cesium or whatever. This is non-sensical

Post by **MovieStuff** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 5:44 am

Lunar07 wrote: The photographer is using the whole thing as an advertisement.

Agreed. In fact, if you look into the recent past, you'll find that I made that very statement. ;)

My comment about looking 2 seconds into the future was more for the sake of a "what if" discussion. However, your pronoucement regarding the validity of the science is actually a bit off. There has been a lot about the work of Dr Wang in Nature magazine as well as other science journals over the last year or so. The military certainly doesn't see it as bad science fiction and tangible results have been recorded, though we're talking about miliseconds of course. I find it all very interesting but the photographer is certainly using this for nothing more than advertising.

Roger

Post by **Lunar07** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 5:51 am

MovieStuff wrote:
Lunar07 wrote: The photographer is using the whole thing as an advertisement.
Agreed. In fact, if you look into the recent past, you'll find that I made that very statement. ;)

I know, I was just enjoying following my line of thinking

However, your pronoucement regarding the validity of the science is actually a bit off. There has been a lot about the work of Dr Wang in Nature magazine as well as other science journals over the last year or so.

I am not invalidating the science. I am invalidating certain misrepresentations that some claim to arise from this science.
Also, I can argue here that a photon that can be processed into seeing some future of Object A after already reflecting from Object A and travelling into the lens at the speed of light where it is processed by whatever, can be violating the Second Law of Thermodynamics - namely that Entropy can never decrease. Violating this law a big NO NO in Physics.

The military certainly doesn't see it as bad science fiction and tangible results have been recorded, though we're talking about miliseconds of course. I find it all very interesting but the photographer is certainly using this for nothing more than advertising.

miliseconds of staring at the future?

Forget about taking photographs. We can make millions at the stock market with this

But really now, I know what you meant, although I do not know in what context you are refering to the milliseconds.

Post by **DriveIn** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 7:59 am

Does this mean they'll know how a film is going to turn out before it's ever developed. This film has been reviewed pre-production and has been found to be a real stinker, so production of the film has been canceled.

Post by **Angus** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:42 am

Lunar07 wrote:
Sorry to destroy your party guys but peeking into the future and seeing something that is going to happen is simply a myth used by bad science fiction writers.

Oh there ARE solutions to the Einstein-Maxwell field equations which indicate "closed time-like lines"....in layman's terms a time travel possibility.

The two solutions I know are Kip Thorne's...which involves using all the energy in the universe to open up the lines enough to get an object or person in....not practical.

Andreas Georgieu's requires two cylinders of effectively infinate length rotating in opposite directions one atop the other to generate the closed time-like lines in spacetime.

In theory at least two pulsars correctly orientated could do it. Or Andreas did work out a horrible formula for the density of a material which could be used to create such a cylinder...density changes with distance from the centre...but it was so complicated that in 1997 at least no plastics manufacturing company in the world could even attempt to make the material.

At that time "time travel" was quite a hot and certainly serious discussion among the world's top relativity specialists...but it seems to have died down somewhat now.

But time travel is NOT just the idea of bad SF writers...the possibility of it is discussed by world renouned scientists.

The photographer is using the whole thing as an advertisement. For people who know their science, it is a bad representation of science, and it is cheesy.

Yes I agree...the photographer is talking total rubbish.

Post by **marc** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:11 pm

So tell us about Roswell!

Post by **Lunar07** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:31 pm

Angus wrote:
Lunar07 wrote:
Sorry to destroy your party guys but peeking into the future and seeing something that is going to happen is simply a myth used by bad science fiction writers.
At that time "time travel" was quite a hot and certainly serious discussion among the world's top relativity specialists...but it seems to have died down somewhat now.

But time travel is NOT just the idea of bad SF writers...the possibility of it is discussed by world renouned scientists.

When I talked about it as being a myth I was refering to the example given. Since in this case, the photons already carry information reaching the lens at the speed of light. So 'treating' these photons with a 'bath of cesium' can show us the future of the cesium at best

Sorry I did not clarify this since I was carried in the heat of the moment

So of course I am not invalidating any science. Just got carried into invalidating a certain situation.

YouTube · Post by **wahiba** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:43 pm

Slowing time more like it. April was months ago. Or should it be f1000000.