Kodak rumors - new film stocks and hardware

[SKJ]

Filmmaker and editor Nathaniel Dorsky was at the New York Film Festival last weekend and during his post-screening Q&A he said that he had met with Kodak CEO Jeff Clarke (although Dorsky did not mention Clark by name), and had projected old Kodachrome films for him and that Clarke loved them. Not sure if it's a result of this but Dorsky said Clarke told him that Kodak will make new color reversal stocks (he didn't mention what gauges, presumably at least 16mm) and Kodak will also manufacture new 16mm projectors. No timeframe on any of this. Not sure if this has been reported anywhere. I think everyone knows that Kodak plans to open 2 new processing labs, in New York (in Long Island City, last I heard) and in London.

I am very happy for the new reversal stocks, as we desperately need them. I wondered what impact this might have on Ferrania's efforts. I hope that the market will support both company's products, because having more emulsions is better for all of us.

Does any one else have more info?

[silverhalide]

Wow, that's very bad news for Ferrania, I would think. But I would also speculate that it will take EK a minimum of 1-2 years to produce any reversal stock at this point. Reversal stock is a much, much different beast than negative stock - with potentially different vendors involved and many supply chain challenges that they don't have with their current product. Dealing with all that will take some time.

I agree that there needs to be a new-production projector on the market if reversal stock is to succeed.

There is nothing like receiving a newly-processed roll of reversal film back from the lab and viewing it: the smell of the film when taken out of the can, the anticipation -- did it come out well, or did I choke, and the euphoria when most of the roll turns out the way you wanted it to. Great way to get the endorphines flowing. Skydiving is for p***ies compared to in-camera edits and reversal film.

(Drat, just blew my chances at running for President.)

[kontrabass888]

Well, it is not April yet, so I don't think it is a jok:))
I remember that before Kodak discontinue 100D, their super 8 100D cartridge costs 12 EUR. and at super 8 NL it costs 22 EUR including processing.

[David M. Leugers]

I think Kodak coming out with a new reversal film would be terrific news, but the idea of coming out with a new 16mm projector makes the rumor a lot harder to swallow. True, that would be great news, but seems risky when people have a hard time shelling out $250 - $300 for a projector overhaul. A new Kodak CT1000 (rebadged Elmo) cost over $1,000 thirty years ago... what would a new one cost today? Maybe Kodak has a new silent projector in mind that would be super gentile on film, easy to operate, and very bright and sharp image projection with the ability to sync with a sound source... I think Ferrania would not be harmed because if they put out a good product at a good price they will be successful.

[doug]

I find it hard to believe but who knows
It would be very feasible though to do a rerun of Ektachrome 100D. Presumably Kodak still has all the machinery and knowhow. Or maybe they could improve the grain a little by making it slower... but I'm just dreaming now

16mm projector ? That would be nice, maybe as David suggests, a silent machine with digital sound sync. Much cheaper than a sound projector.

[Will2]

They may be seeing how Super 8 does. Surprised we haven't heard anything on that front for a while.

A new 16mm projector sounds really far-fetched. There's no economy of scale there...the current well of used 16mm projectors takes care of demand.

It also seems like their Super 8 strategy is all based around conversion to digital so reversal stocks seem unlikely to me unless the re-launch of the format is extremely successful.

Ferrania is perfectly positioned to benefit from this analog resurgence and I don't think Kodak is a threat. Even if Kodak starts making reversal again, Ferrania will have it's own unique look and will have a place. If Kodak makes Ektachrome 100D again, it's so perfect that Ferrari's likely "less than perfect" look will be in demand for more of a "home movie" look.

Kodak should actually go to all the small fringe manufacturers (Ferrania, ORWO, ect.) and make a deal to offer their stocks from a Super 8 hub website. They can mark it up and make some money plus help the small manufacturers keep afloat. Kodak can process these stocks with their new labs too.

[doug]

I think there would definitely be a market for a high quality fine grain reversal film like Velvia but with the more neutral colours of Ektachrome. They could make it as a slide film as well as S.8 and 16 movie. And as Will says it need not be a threat to Ferrania. It would maybe cost quite a bit more than Ferrania's because it's Kodak, but there'd be a demand for sure.

[camera8mm]

some information on the new Kodak super 8 camera would be helpful before Kodak jumps ahead.

[David M. Leugers]

Any reversal film stock from Kodak would be greatly appreciated. Forty years ago Kodak made a slow, fine grained Ektachrome film stock called Ektachrome 40 that was discontinued after a few short years. I really like the way it looked. Definitely different from Kodachrome and beautiful in its own right. I'd be a happy shooter if they just started making that film stock again for E6 processing. It would be usable in all S-8mm cameras with the ASA of 40. I am sure Kodak can improve on the old formula if they wanted to. A wish for a film stock would be for a very high speed Ektachrome film of at least 400 ASA with sharp images and good color. Grain is not as important as sharpness and good color image, especially for shooting indoors where it would be used mostly. I am sure grain can be improved over the old formula high speed Ektachrome films. I guess we'll see what, if anything, Kodak has up their sleeve.

[doug]

Any reversal film stock from Kodak would be greatly appreciated. Forty years ago Kodak made a slow, fine grained Ektachrome film stock called Ektachrome 40 that was discontinued after a few short years. I really like the way it looked. Definitely different from Kodachrome and beautiful in its own right. I'd be a happy shooter if they just started making that film stock again for E6 processing. It would be usable in all S-8mm cameras with the ASA of 40. I am sure Kodak can improve on the old formula if they wanted to. A wish for a film stock would be for a very high speed Ektachrome film of at least 400 ASA with sharp images and good color. Grain is not as important as sharpness and good color image, especially for shooting indoors where it would be used mostly. I am sure grain can be improved over the old formula high speed Ektachrome films. I guess we'll see what, if anything, Kodak has up their sleeve.

Whereas anything from Kodak would be welcome, it makes sense for everybody not to do a similar product as Ferrania's. So please Kodak, either a slow fine grain emulsion of 50 iso or less (most movie cameras and lenses work best at this speed outdoors) or a high speed emulsion of say 400 for interiors.
There is certainly a resurgence of analogue film by still photographers.... I am constantly running out of film in my camera shop and trying to restock. There's now a fantastic demand for 120 format film. Because of the extra width it would make it more economic for both Kodak and Ferrania to manufacture big rolls of E6 film.

[Will2]

Any reversal film stock from Kodak would be greatly appreciated. Forty years ago Kodak made a slow, fine grained Ektachrome film stock called Ektachrome 40 that was discontinued after a few short years. I really like the way it looked.

As long as they keep that Ektachrome 125 buried...7240. I think it came in that black box? That was one of the ugliest stocks they made. Process VNF-1. No way that would come back.

100D was just wonderful, especially in 16mm.

One of the ugliest reversals:

[Tscan]

I

Any reversal film stock from Kodak would be greatly appreciated. Forty years ago Kodak made a slow, fine grained Ektachrome film stock called Ektachrome 40 that was discontinued after a few short years. I really like the way it looked. Definitely different from Kodachrome and beautiful in its own right. I'd be a happy shooter if they just started making that film stock again for E6 processing. It would be usable in all S-8mm cameras with the ASA of 40. I am sure Kodak can improve on the old formula if they wanted to. A wish for a film stock would be for a very high speed Ektachrome film of at least 400 ASA with sharp images and good color. Grain is not as important as sharpness and good color image, especially for shooting indoors where it would be used mostly. I am sure grain can be improved over the old formula high speed Ektachrome films. I guess we'll see what, if anything, Kodak has up their sleeve.

I'd like to see a sample of the Ektachrome 40 if you have any. Always been curious about it. The old EM-25 Ektachromes were more pleasant than the VNF films. I agree with Will, the VNF stocks were terrible. However I like the newe E6 Ektachromes better than Kodachrome. Would like to see more, but I'm pretty skeptical about the above info. I'm still holding my breath for the new camera and film packages, which was announced 10 months ago and I haven't heard a peep since.

[Tommy]

VNF reversal stocks were not made for traditional home projection, they were made for projection on a TV film chain which then pops the colors and the contrast and makes it look " normal" and great for TV broadcast. In home projection ,the film has low contrast/ low color saturation....VNF = Video News Film,...it was the film TV news cameramen used in their 16mm cameras before portable 3/4" video cameras became feasible in the late 70's.

[Tscan]

VNF reversal stocks were not made for traditional home projection, they were made for projection on a TV film chain which then pops the colors and the contrast and makes it look " normal" and great for TV broadcast. In home projection ,the film has low contrast/ low color saturation....VNF = Video News Film,...it was the film TV news cameramen used in their 16mm cameras before portable 3/4" video cameras became feasible in the late 70's.

Exactly, and when you think about the fact that it hung around as an entire line of 16mm film until 2005 shows how little R&D has gone into color reversal MP films since the early 1970's. It basically stayed on for the film schools, and was available in 3 or 4 different speeds. They added VNF 125T to super 8 as a replacement for the Ektachrome 160 in 97. Ektachrome 100D is the only color reversal developed after the 80's. It was still a spin off from slide film. Introduced in 1999 as 35mm MP stock for big music videos and the poppy look of the time. It wasn't available in 16mm until 2005 to replace all the VNF stocks and Kodachrome. Super 8 got 64T to replace VNF and K40, until it ran out in 2010 in which 100D finaly came to S8 and lasted 2 years.

[Charlie Blackfield]

Interesting comments on Ektachrome 125. When I started shooting Standard 8 (in 2007), this film stock was the one I used on the first couple of rolls. I didn't think of it as terrible, although I agree that 100D was a lot better in pretty much every respect, such as colours, contrast and sharpness. Didn't realize until now that Etkachrome 125 was designed for TV screens.

Charlie