Telecine Computer

[gaugefilm]

Hi all,

I've gathered together everything I need computer wise to run the WorkPrinter HD that we ordered. Roger gave me a parts list and some instructions. I wondered if any of you could shed some light on some tech questions. I don't really want to bother Roger with it because he always seems so busy. And these questions are to satisfy my own curiosity more than anything else.

Firstly, Roger is adamant that the Workprinter is used on a 32bit OS (windows 7, pro or ultimate). Why can't I use a 64bit system? Is it because Velocity is not available for this system? I assume the benefits of the 64bit system is RAM. As I understand it a 32bit system can only use 4GB of RAM.

Secondly he suggests a software Raid 0, rather than a hardware raid 0. I thought a hardware raid offered better performance than a software raid because there is no CPU time for managing the discs which can become problematic when doing CPU intensive tasks. Any ideas for this?

I just want to make it clear these are in no way criticisms, I'm sure Roger has very good reasons for this set up and I'm just attempting to understand without bothering him. I'm a long way off being a computer expert! But the more I understand about my system the better my services will be.

Thanks
Kevin

[Nicholas_C]

I'm not sure about Velocity but I've used cinecap standard on 64bit win7.
You could install a dual boot environment and just try it out, 64bit and 32bit

As to the raid settings I'm not sure but others will be able to tell you. I've be experimenting with converting my diy SD telecine machine to HD with different cameras and good, fast SSD drives may not necessarily require Raid. So far my tests with small clips seem to confirm this as my OS is on a good SSD (I'm capturing via hdmi to a blackmagic intensity shuttle usb 3.0 ). but I haven't done enough capturing with it yet to see if this true for large files.

I don't mean to confuse the issue as I know what it's like when building a pc, the raid settings have to be got right at the beginning saving frustration later.

[gaugefilm]

Hi Nicholas, thanks for the reply, there isn't enough information about this type of stuff on the web. It's great to have someone thats working towards the same goal to discuss things with. This is the section of the message I received from Roger concerning the OS:

'There will be a 64 bit version of the software later but, for now, you cannot use a 64 bit OS nor can you use a 64 bit OS in the 32 bit mode'.

Would it be ok to instal a duel boot environment do you think? As it appears there will be a 64bit version later anyway it seems like the sensible thing to do. I have no clue how to do it btw, or if it's the right thing to do. The bit about not being able to use the 64 bit OS in 32 bit mode worries me? Has this got anything to do with a duel boot environment? How easy is it to interchange with or without a duel boot? I'm confused I'm learning this computer stuff as I go along really. I did a test boot on my system today. So far so good. Never built a computer before, really enjoying it!

Roger recommended 3 drives which are one system drive (which I assume is for Windows 7 and Velocity only) and two Enterprise drives which I assume is for the video capture. I guess the bonus of using the RE4's is they are lot cheaper than the SSD's:

System Drive (cannot be partitioned)
1TB System Drive (SATA 3.0Gb/s) 7,200RPM w64MB Buffer

Video Record Drive:
2TB Raid-0 array made up of two 1TB RE4 - video capture drives ( SATA 3.0GB/s) 7,200 RPM w/64MB Buffer
NOTE: These are designated specifically as "RE4" drives and not regular SATA drives.
You should use a software raid via Windows system disc manager and not a hardware raid.

Another thing actually... why can't the system drive be partitioned?

I'm using the Blackmagic intensity pro... not the shuttle. Are they pretty much the same thing asides from the fact the shuttle is external?

Best
Kev

[Nicholas_C]

Hi Kevin,

It seems your best option is to install win 7 32bit pro (you don't realy need ultimate)
If Roger says this is the OS it works in for now.

you can always do install a dual boot later on with 64bit windows or even just back up your files and simply
reinstall as 64bit. Once you use 64bit windows there's no reason to go back (except if you are using lots of old incompatible software).

I don't really inderstand why you can't partition the system drive, I can't be sure but i think Roger may mean you can't partition it for use as the video drives which makes sense of course. I would always partition a system drive that large as you won't need that much space for software and more drives makes organising your files easier.

If you can partition the system drive into 2 500GB drives then you can install 64bit windows on the other later. If it was me I would partition into 3 drives in this case, 2x 200GB for 2 different OS's and the remaining 600GB would be a data drive (not for the telecine but for other data you may want to store on your computer as I'm sure you will use it for something else other than telecine)

It's something you should perhaps check with Roger first but I see no reason why you can't partition the system drive, the system will just see it as different drives.

There are many tutorials for dual booting win7 32 and 64, best have a look around the web, just always make sure you back up your important files first.

'nor can you use a 64 bit OS in the 32 bit mode' maybe Roger means the virtual xp mode you can download and install, in any case I wouldn't recommend using that anyway.

It can be fun building a computer, glad you're enjoying it It's really satifying when it's all up and running.

Yes the Shuttle is basically the same as the intensity pro card I believe, just more convenient if you have usb 3.0 ports

keep us updated on the progress

[granfer]

Yes, it's fun building a Computer... but if you are aiming to use the excellent Blackmagic "add-ons" (Card or Shuttle) read my earlier post first! It's copied here......



Re: Workprinter XP to Sniper (Kinda)

Postby granfer » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:54 pm
A word of caution here!!! It is far too easily overlooked that Blackmagic Intensity Pro is VERY, VERY fussy about what Computer it will run on. It's SO easy to simply gloss over the System Requirements on the Blackmagic Website and think that your computer is more than adequate... but Intensity Pro will not work properly if you use other than the specific motherboards listed fitted with the CORRECT[/b ] Chipsets and Processors.
I'm no computer technophobe, so I found to my cost that the computer I built specially would not run it; I simply had not understood the implications of not following the detailed requirements WORD for WORD!
Which is why Roger recommends a particular Computer supplier who will build you one specially for use with Blackmagic Hardware.

[Nicholas_C]

Yes Granfer is quite right to point this out.

Before buying, I emailed Blackmagic support to check if my motherboard worked with the intensity shuttle. They replied that it most likely did from the specs but they hadn't tested it so couldn't be sure. Luckily for me it worked. it all depended on whether my pci expansion slots were gen 2.0 as I was running my usb 3.0 card from that.

[gaugefilm]

Hi Granfer, thanks for the reply. I've followed Rogers parts list and instructions down to the letter so it should all be compatible (I hope). Plus the price Roger suggested MicroSearch in Huston build the comp was a little more than £2000 (without postage). I've managed to get my hands on all the parts and build it myself for £800. That was a huge impetus for building it myself.

Nicholas, I'll use the 32bit OS for now then, thanks for that. I'll also email Roger about the partitions and see what he says. If he says it's ok I'll definitely follow your advice and split the drive three ways.

All the hardware is installed. One issue I have run into is that Roger advised I put the black magic intensity pro card into PCI-E slot number 1. My motherboard manual does not specify which slot is which. For instance 1,2,3,4 etc... Now because the black magic card is a x1 connector I figured it was logical the number 1 slot would be at the top of the board so I plugged it in the top slot.

He also advised I plug the graphics card in the number 2 PCI-E slot. This is a x16 connection so does he mean put it in the highest PCI-E x16 slot which is the second slot down on the board (however it's the primary PCI-E x16 slot) or the bottom x16 slot (secondary)? Or in reality does it make little difference? For now I place it in the secondary slot. Here is what I've done:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gaugefilm/ ... hotostream

Any ideas? I kinda have a feeling the graphics card is meant to be in the upper x16 slot?

Thanks
Kev

[aj]

This RAID 0 requirement was discussed at length on the forum.

Despite the incredible performance of modern machines it seems it is still needed.
The need is caused by the method used to create and write thousands of files in Cinecap which collides with Windows handling things.

[gaugefilm]

Just an up date for anyone who is interested. Perhaps it might be useful to others in future.

As far as I can tell the upper x1 slot cannot detect the card. Initially in the Device Manager in 'other devices' no multimedia video controller was detected:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gaugefilm/ ... otostream/

However when I took it out of the PCI-e x1 slot and moved it to the x16 slot it popped right up:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gaugefilm/ ... otostream/

It seems that Roger meant the Black Magic Intensity Pro Card is meant to go in the primary PCI-e x16 slot and NOT the upper PCI-e x1 slot. However I'm kinda feeling my way through this set up so if I'm wrong someone please chime, add their thoughts. Is this how the Black Magic Card appears before drivers are installed?

Best
Kevin

[Nicholas_C]

This RAID 0 requirement was discussed at length on the forum.

Despite the incredible performance of modern machines it seems it is still needed.
The need is caused by the method used to create and write thousands of files in Cinecap which collides with Windows handling things.

You are generally right of course and if you can afford to get multiple drives for Raid then it's always the best option.

But in my case I am fortunate that my system manages without a Raid configuration even with HD capture, probably because my telecine machine only runs at 3fps. I've been testing with an hdmi output from a GH2 into a Blackmagic Shuttle onto a fast SSD. I have a fast PC and lots of ram which probably helps along with the SSD. I just need to improve my lens setup. The Blackmagic media express software even seems to work as well as cinecap, better even. Cinecap always frustrated me in that there's no option to save as individual frames, it's just not necessary for it to compile into a video. Better to do that in After effects or Premiere pro or similar. You can capture single frames in media express with the sync mouse.

[Tscan]

About 2 years ago I built a PC with an i5, 3 500GB drives, 2 are n a RAID 0, Vista Ultamate 32bit, Black magic Intensity pro card. The PC works great, but the image noise and rolling shutter from the HD cam can be an issue.

[gaugefilm]

After a pretty hectic week sorting out this 100D panic (still is shock about it) I'm finally getting around to attempt setting up a software RAID 0 or Striping (as windows calls it, I think) that Roger suggests on windows 7 pro.

All the drivers are installed on my system drive. I'm now ready to hook up my two 1tb RE4 video drives for software raid 0. Problem is I'm a computer novice so I'm a little in the dark on how to actually do this. I'm going to google all evening/ tomorrow morning to get some idea of how to do it but if anyone on here can give me a few pointers that would be great.

Kind Regards
Kevin

[milesandjules]

I was in the same situation with an old asus a8n32sli board....it had a dedicated pcie 4x connection...but when I put the intensity in that slot the computer froze...so I looked up what other people did to fix it on the bmd forum...and they said try juggling the cards around.....and it worked....I put the graphics card in the bottom pcie sli graphics slot and the intensity in the blue top pcie sli graphics slot....and it works. I was amazed.....especially as we used to have a multibridge extreme plugged into the 4x pcie slot and that worked (even if it was a pig to use)....weird that the intensity wouldn't. I was at a point of swearing never buying another bmd product....but then it worked....the intensity is a cool little card

[Tscan]

I built one about 2 years ago for the Velocity HD setup... Intel i5 650, 4 gigs RAM, Radeon HD4870 graphics card, 500GB system drive, 2 500GB RAID 0 array (1.5TB total) Black Magic Intensity Pro card, Vista Ultimate 32bit. That thing plows.

Vista came with 2 discs 32 and 64bit. I'm going to back up my files and intall the 64bit version soon and moving up to 8, maybe 16 gigs of RAM for the Retro 8 scanner. I'll be selling my Worprinter with the Velocity box and Intensity Pro card package in the next month or so. PM me if anyone is interested.

[JonH]

Tscan,

If you are selling your Workprinter set-up in favor of the Retro8, you might want to wait. You might find it better to have both available, at least until you have worked with both.

My WorkprinterRGB with the LED sliders is sweet! Excellent pre-capture adjustment capabilities. You won't have that with the Retro8, as Roger indicates it is more for the consumer market.

Regards,

Jon