100D - the low down?

[mr_x]

Hi,

Just found myself juggling a cart of 100D out of the fridge with the sudden realisation I have never filmed with this emulsion before! What is the low down please? Does it take a filter for daylight exposure? Should it take a filter for a sunny day? A decade ago I shot a cart of old Ektachrome ASA125 on a summer's day and the result was overexposed, the film was too fast for the conditions (despite using an auto metered Canon 814) so I was wondering how to handle this new ASA100 emulsion?

Googled the Tube and sure enough found some overexposed sunny 100D. This might also be a poor transfer but there definitely appears to be some over exposure in there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDg_AhPveyM

Any tips hugely appreciated! ;)

Thanks,

Ric

[mr_x]

PS. alternatively I could meter it as ASA200 film which will under expose it - I know you can do this with black&white film, but is it cool to try this for colour?

[MattWalters]

I've shot 200D (or was it 250D) ? on a sunny day before and things came out perfectly fine on an autometered camera (had the neutral density filter on)

I think almost all cameras have them ? certainly the two super 8's that I have do - just try using that it gives you an extra 4 stops

[mr_x]

I've shot 200D (or was it 250D) ? on a sunny day before and things came out perfectly fine on an autometered camera (had the neutral density filter on)

I think almost all cameras have them ? certainly the two super 8's that I have do - just try using that it gives you an extra 4 stops

Thanks. Am using a Bolex 'H', it has a filter tray & I just got hold of 5 empty filter holders so can put together a full ND collection for the camera. May need to experiment then - soon I hope! ;) Will be using a hand-held light meter though, a Gossen.

[RogerG]

I've shot several rolls of 100D in my H16 SB, and can assure you that out in the open on a bright sunny day, you'll need an ND filter. I've used a .6 (2-stop) filter, and occasionally closed down the variable shutter for another stop.

You didn't say whether your H16 is a reflex model. If so, you'll find the viewfinder is extremely dim when you combine ND with and f-stop of say f/11. Due to the bright sun, it takes some time for your eye to adjust to the dimness of the viewfinder. If I had a standard turrent H16 I'd definitely consider using the octometer viewfinder under such circumstances. Using an octometer on an SB requires spacers that are almost impossible to find.

[mr_x]

I've shot several rolls of 100D in my H16 SB, and can assure you that out in the open on a bright sunny day, you'll need an ND filter. I've used a .6 (2-stop) filter, and occasionally closed down the variable shutter for another stop...didn't say whether your H16 is a reflex model. If so, you'll find the viewfinder is extremely dim when you combine ND with and f-stop of say f/11. Due to the bright sun, it takes some time for your eye to adjust to the dimness of the viewfinder. If I had a standard turrent H16 I'd definitely consider using the octometer viewfinder under such circumstances. Using an octometer on an SB requires spacers that are almost impossible to find.

Hi Roger,

Thanks. Have a transitional H16, it is reflex but has no variable shutter control on the side, which is a pain but I am coping. Yes, I have noticed how dark the lenses get beyond F8, I have to focus at full diaphragm then stop down. I also have a couple of video lenses on the turret which stop down to close the aperture entirely, so that is something to watch out for, at the extreme of the f-stop spectrum. Up till now I have been screwing ND filters onto the lenses but have just customised myself an H16 ND filter tray set, so that should make things a little easier. It has no octometer but I don't really find the lens thing a problem at the moment, it's just getting a feel for the emulsion. I don't mind Kodak improving their emulsions all the while but why do they have to keep altering the speed of their flagship films? - asa 40; asa 125 which replaced an asa 160 film, and now asa 100. Never mind. I sense a 100D ND test film in the offing ;)

[mr_x]

... it takes some time for your eye to adjust to the dimness of the viewfinder. If I had a standard turrent H16 I'd definitely consider using the octometer viewfinder under such circumstances. Using an octometer on an SB requires spacers that are almost impossible to find.

I will be frank in that I don't understand the viewfinder arrangement. Would adding a more contemporary (zoom) lens improve the brightness of the viewfinder? I have a Bolex P1 Standard 8 camera which maintains an overall brightness through the veiwfinder however small an aperture you select. Is it just the P series had a 'mark 2' viewfinder system which allowed more light into it?

Thanks

[BAC]

With the P1 you're not looking through the iris so it lets in plenty of light. The reflex viewfinder on the P1 is positioned in front of the iris. It's as if you had the iris fully opened all the time on your H8. The problem with the P1 is when you are not looking through the iris is that you can't see the depth of field. I have a few P2's that don't have the rangefinder focusing aid that the P1 has, they can be kind of difficult to focus because of this. So adding a different lens would only help if you used a lens with the reflex viewfinder built in so that you're not using the cameras viewfinder. As long as you use the viewfinder on the H8 you will have the same problem. The Switar H8 Rex lenses have two levers to set the iris. After you set the iris you can move one lever to fully open it for focusing. When you are ready to shoot you move it back to where it stops against the other lever to reset the iris.

A while back I read about someone that has a process to make the viewfinder brighter. You need to send him the camera to have the modification made. I remember it was kind of expensive and I'm not sure if he is still in business. Maybe someone on this forum knows who it is that does this.

[RogerG]

Super-16 Inc is the company that can brighten the ground glass in your camera:

http://super16inc.com/page3.html

BAC's explanation of the why the viewfinder image is so dim is correct - unlike Super-8 cameras with permanently mounted lenses, the prism is behind the iris. Most 16mm reflex cameras use the mirrored shutter approach which directs 100% of the light gathered by the lens to the viewfinder, not the 25% or so in a Bolex. Therefore, stopping down still dims the viewfinder image, but the greater amount of light compensates for this.

On a bright sunny day, your pupils are tiny as well, which exacerbates the dimness. I try to wear sunglasses when I'm not shooting, and when I put my eye to the viewfinder, try to keep it there to allow my eye to adjust to the dimmer image. It does help.

[mr_x]

Thanks - that explains it. One advantage of the H16 is that you can film towards the sun without dazzling yourself but camera operator beware, you could still damage your sight.

I see what you mean by dark glasses though. The problem with my lenses (not a great problem) is that in theory I can focus with them open and then stop down but in practise you have to keep ducking back in front of the camera to check for exactly the right f-stop.

But what the heck - this is real photography :mrgreen:

[Will2]

I love 100D when it's projected. Very accurate colors. In 16mm it's really amazing. Not a big fan of it transferred however.

Maybe I'm backwards but I love reversal film in 16mm and negative in Super 8 (especially 50D).

[MIKI-814]

DO shot the E100D at ASA 100, specially if you are going to have it transferred some time.

[mr_x]

thanks all - well it's hang-fire time till i get my hands on some E6 chemistry & a new thermostat - then we shall see what we shall see [or not if i screw the processing ]

;)

[mr_x]

Well I put three Lomo's of film through the E6 and the colour balance on the final load is as good as the first, so that's good news. Last time I tried this I only had one thermostat - using two was crucial - it means I can keep chemicals and rinse water (in 2L jugs) at stable temperature while keeping the Lomo's at 38C. Need to tweak the chemical thermostat because it warms a larger volume of water and loses about 2 degrees to a greater all round surface (tub) area.

It also means 1 litre of E6 properly covers 16mm / double 8 settings of the Lomo spirals, as long as you have the Lomo on a perfectly level horizontal.

An unexpected plus has been the realisation that my 3/4 size Lomo tank isn't the 'wrong' size as someone [not here] once suggested to me, it's actually a double 8 or Standard 8 size tank. This will come in handy if my latest Standard 8 experiments work out, more on that later no doubt.

Am losing footage due to loading under safe light conditions & need to practise loading in the dark (more). Lost even more film by over-loading the first 16mm Lomo spiral, difficult I find in the dark to work out when the spiral is full but that just comes with repeating the procedure over and again. Last time I split a 16mm film for loading I got it exactly right, so weird. Trouble is I am now using Bolex 'P' Single 8 & Bolex H16 which are pretty dissimilar to load so the margin for confusion widens. My fault for not sticking with one gauge!

Good news though - following those times really works - I could easily have got a fourth Lomo through that litre of chemistry but whether I would have had the mental and physical stamina to process four tanks in a row is another question!

Thanks,

Ric




Ps. the Bolex P was loaded with Velvia 50. The H16 was loaded with 100D. I am now always erring on the side of underexposure so generous with the ND filters. To begin with t is a rugger to focus the H16 with its comparatively tiny viewer and darkening viewing screen but it is possible to focus on full aperture then stop down / ND filter afterwards - that's what I do anyway ;)