People say "Look at that old projector" when I show films.

[slashmaster]

I've been making and showing super 8 films since about 1987 and I'm really having a hard time understanding why even back in 1987 people would say things like "Hahaha, look at that old projector!". At first I thought it was because the film and projector was only silent but when I got a 16mm sound projector, same thing! Then I decided maybe that projector was a bit too early looking and I got a considerably more modern looking one but still same thing. Then I decided maybe if I use plastic reels it might look more modern but still got the same results. I decided maybe that looks cheap and tried painting the ordinary metal brown reels black but that didn't work either. I have not tried using a platter system and digital sync sound yet but I get the feeling I would get the same results with that too. Now I'm starting to wonder, would these same people say the same stuff if they saw the projection room at a modern movie theater? Or an imax projector?

[carllooper]

I guess most people mustn't know what a projector actually is. Perhaps the closest they come to imagining what it what might be is that small glowing glass window at the back of the cinema. Or they think the cinema screen is just a big TV screen.

Carl

[Patrick]

I was about to screen some super 8 footage of mine to a bunch of relatives with my projector. The footage was a mix of some time lapse and underwater subject matter - basically stuff that I'd put a lot of work into to try and look good. Before I even started, an aunty called out: "Look, Patrick's going to show us some home movies!"

Nothing wrong with home movies but I have to admit, that I was a bit insulted by that comment.

[slashmaster]

That's a good one Carl, The cinema screen is just a big tv screen!.

I hear ya Patrick, I wonder what the guys from IMAX would do if while they filmed someone said "Ah, I see you guys are making some home movies"?

[carllooper]

The term "home movies" is interesting.

The origin of the term goes back to when Kodak decided to target, as consumers, not just the new businesses that were starting to make a living with the new technology but the much bigger market that amateur filmmakers could represent. And an even bigger market could be the leisure time filmmaker. Leisure time, of course, occured at "home" rather than at "work".

The "home movie" was born.

Now at the time the word "amateur" did not have the negative connotations it does today. An amateur was just as good, if not better at making films than those who made a living from it. The difference was that the amateur was self funded. They did their work off their own back and were highly admired for this. But in targeting both the amateur and the leisure time film maker there was a risk to business interests. If amateurs (or even leisure time film makers) could make a film as good as or better than those who did it as a living, how could business maintain themselves in the face of such "competition".

The answer was to invent the category of "professional films". This category would exclude amateur and leisure time films. Only professional films could be screened at cinemas and take possession of box office returns.

But as a result of this the language changed.

The term "amateur" became a put down. And not just in film making but in all sorts of social sectors. This was entirely due to fear - that amateurs might disrupt the commercial/business interpretation of film making. The leisure time film makers were not so much of a threat since the work of leisure time film makers was typically focused on subjects of little interest to a wider audience outside the immediate "home" of the film maker.

The "amateur film maker" became the same as "home movie maker" - but only because both were excluded from the domain of "professional film" - rather than because of anything that was intrinsically the same between the two.

A lot has now changed, especially with the net. The same terms get bandied about but are no longer anywhere near as effective as they once were. The terms "amateur" and "home movie maker" can still sting, but the work of the amateur film maker, has the ability, now more than ever, to take back the audience they always deserved.

Carl

[slashmaster]

That's interesting Carl, do you have a time frame of when all this happened? Was this all before 8mm and even 16mm was invented?

[nickrapak]

One must also remember, the word "amateur" comes from the Latin amatorem, meaning "lover". essentially, an "amateur" was someone that loved what they did, not an inexperienced buffoon, as it's now implied to mean.

[BAC]

One must also remember, the word "amateur" comes from the Latin amatorem, meaning "lover". essentially, an "amateur" was someone that loved what they did, not an inexperienced buffoon, as it's now implied to mean.

What did you just call me? :lol:

[Tscan]

Almost no one these days realizes that almost all the movies they see at the theater are still shot on film. The general concencious is that all movies are shot on some kind of digital format.

[carllooper]

That's interesting Carl, do you have a time frame of when all this happened? Was this all before 8mm and even 16mm was invented?

For movie making it can be dated to the invention of 16mm film in 1923. This format was targeted at the amateur / leisure time film maker. 8mm would follow later. But the roots of this targeting go back to the very origins of Kodak. Not that Wikipedia is a reliable source of information but here's a quote from such:

The first model of the Kodak camera appeared in the year 1888. It took round pictures 2½ inches in diameter, was of the fixed focus type and carried a roll of film sufficient for 100 exposures. Its invention practically marked the advent of amateur photography, as before that time both apparatus and processes were too burdensome to permit of classification in the field of recreation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastman_Kodak#Origins

For companies such as Kodak there was no need to make a distinction between professional and amateur. The "you" in it's advertising slogan could be the amateur and professional alike.

You press the button, we do the rest.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastman_Kodak#Origins

With respect to 16mm film we can again look to Wikipedia for traces:

16 mm film was introduced by Eastman Kodak in 1923 as an inexpensive amateur alternative to the conventional 35 mm film format. During the 1920s the format was often referred to as sub-standard film by the professional industry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16mm_film#History

It was the business clients of Kodak, more so than Kodak itself, that is at the origin of the alteration in the meaning of the word "amateur". But the publicity Kodak was putting out couldn't hurt. Indeed it became an unwitting accomplice.

Kodak's ideal target was the leisure time photographer (and later film maker), of which there could be a much larger number of potential customers. Kodak could sell vastly more film if it could put film in the hands of everyone rather than just those who did photography (or film making) as a business or an art.

Of course, this pissed off those in the business of photography. And when the time came - it pissed off those in the business of making films as well. When we hear the word "amateur" today we hear it as an echo of the way in which it was uttered, during those times. A mixture of the initial anger and the subsequent devisive strategies.

Business needed to either assimilate the artist to business or exorcise them and what better way to do that than to either put them on the payroll, or put them in the same category, as Kodak had unwittingly done, as consumers, rather than as producers.

But the actual story is far more involved and compelling than this brief summary. For it involves not just business and their bosses, but the workers as well, and society as a whole.

A few pissed off entrepreneurs, don't alter the language.

Carl

[Patrick]

Almost no one these days realizes that almost all the movies they see at the theater are still shot on film. The general concencious is that all movies are shot on some kind of digital format.

From what Ive heard, the vast majority of current 3D movies are shot on HD. Don't know why they don't shoot stereo features on film like they used to.

[slashmaster]

Almost no one these days realizes that almost all the movies they see at the theater are still shot on film. The general concencious is that all movies are shot on some kind of digital format.

From what Ive heard, the vast majority of current 3D movies are shot on HD. Don't know why they don't shoot stereo features on film like they used to.

Probably because they would need 2 rolls of film for the camera and that would make it really heavy.

[slashmaster]

Almost no one these days realizes that almost all the movies they see at the theater are still shot on film. The general concencious is that all movies are shot on some kind of digital format.

Interesting, do they also think it's projected like that? The feature film I mean, not the commercials they play before it?

[slashmaster]

That's interesting Carl, do you have a time frame of when all this happened? Was this all before 8mm and even 16mm was invented?

For movie making it can be dated to the invention of 16mm film in 1923. This format was targeted at the amateur / leisure time film maker. 8mm would follow later. But the roots of this targeting go back to the very origins of Kodak. Not that Wikipedia is a reliable source of information but here's a quote from such:


Carl

Thanks Carl, makes me wonder how anyone paid for 35mm before 1923 if that was your only real option.

[Tscan]

Almost no one these days realizes that almost all the movies they see at the theater are still shot on film. The general concencious is that all movies are shot on some kind of digital format.

Interesting, do they also think it's projected like that? The feature film I mean, not the commercials they play before it?

I've asked about 5 people what they thought about how theater images work, and they either don't think about it at all, or they assume there is some kind of high tech digital projector in there. One person actually thought it was beamed into the booth by satellite. Everyone was surprised when I tell them the image comes from film going through a projector.

Didn't the Bolex H16 have some kind of 3D adaptor?