arriflex st question - orange viewfinder?

[jean]

Ok ok ok ok, i hear all of you foks burst out in laughter: "Dude, take off the daylight filter"

But there is no filter anywhere??!?!?!? I took off the side cover, took off the eyepiece, and the orange-yellowish cast ist still there. Peeking at the mirror and lens from the inside, everything is crystal clear. Something in the viewfinder started to decompose?

Anyone who knows that camera - is that a feature, or normal for the arriflex st? I eep wondering what this might be, i can't see a way of putting in a color filter into the viewinder tube, or imagine what that might be good for.

I checked both the manual and web resoources, but found no place mentioning orange viewfinders.

GREAT camera, btw. Heavy, but smaller that some of my super8 cameras. And really built like a tank. It already has survived the first owner, i guess, and i have no doubt that it will survive me, and film alltogether

[Guest-]

Sounds like mold

[cineandy]

Hi, does your viewfinder have the tv frame markings? what lenses do have with the camera??. Now to your question, warm orange cast in the viewfinder, not a deep orange like a 85 filter?... i have two st, one does suffer from a orange viewfinder,the other is fine. you may find its just the age of the glass in the viewfinder, my second st has a higher serial no. and is OK...

[jean]

Hi cineandy,

the cast is not from a 85 filter, it's much less "orange", more yellowish. The camera is serial 8166, i guess a very old one, with three arri standard mounts. Hmm, when you are having a similar cast, either this was intentional or some elements in the viewfinder become orange with age.. well, seems i have to live with it. Don't even want to imagine what it looks with a 85 filter mounted 8O

The lenses, that was luck for me, it came with 5 lenses! A superheavy SOM zoom 1:2,4 17,5 - 70, not likely that i'll use that one, and 4 schneider primes 10, 16, 25 and 50mm. I'm especially happy with the 10mm, it focusses down to 20cm, and is my first real wide angle on a movie camera. I always wanted one for car interior shots, i'll see if this one does it!

The camera has seen a lot of use, showing wear, brassing and dents. But while dirty (and smelly :?: ) outside, the glass and the interior are surprisingly clean, the filmgate is absolutely spotless. On monday i get a 8v battery, and then i'll know how (and if) the camera runs! The handling and build are very impressive, the difference between this workhorse and the "prosumer" stuff from the same time are quite big. I hope bringing it to full working condition won't cost me to much! I'll give arri a call next week..

[ericMartinJarvies]

hello jean,

can you post a picture of it here? are you going to take it apart and paint it? i am considring purchasing an eclair or cp 16mm, and most of these cameras have seen better days cosmetically, so i will most likely refurb. these types of cameras seem more basic in design, unlike some of the cnsumer cameras.

[cineandy]

Hi Jean, my st with the orange viewfinder, serial no. 10000 ish, the newer one is serial no. 14900 and is ok. I purchased the newer one about 16 months ago, took it to Arri-GB, had a full service on the camera, the vary speed motor though could not be repaired (no spares).If you are considering taking your st in for a service, let the service dept have your lenses aswell, get them to check the lenses back focus, dont try and save money by not having them checked.

[jean]

Cineandy, that's what i'm up to, i will see if i find a decent, but affordable service here. Arri factory is 5min walk from my home, so that wil be my first try

But.. YIPEEEEEE! I'm the first one to place pix in the 16mm section 8) Heck, i would have done better if I had known before

For all inetersted, the camera is quite small. Bulky, but not big, in fact smaller than a lot super8 cameras. Very handholdable, i was very surprised, to say the least. I had expected a camera that was hardly useable without tripod.

Uh, yes, a new painting would be fine

[jean]

Eric,

yes, at least the arri is much simpler, bigger and solid than any beaulieu. Nevertheless, there are so many grips, buttons, switches placed all over the body that it is much more difficult to take it all apart and paint. You remember, the beaulieu's case is quite a simple thing to take off and paint. Doing the same here looks like a real challenge, perhaps eclairs or cp16 are better suited for this? The beaulieus seem really fragile compard to this tank. Even the R16 is fragile, you get instantly worried about scratching it, or breaking something by accident after holding the arri.

..but already thinking about an orange arriflex, hehe

I feel that i will use this camera a lot, it really is a excellent movie making machine. It's up to any task i can think of.

[jean]

Anyone has an idea what this might be? I checked the Arri manual, but obviously this is some custom made stuff added afterwards. I have no idea what this might be, there is no switch or button or something, just the metal cylinder-shaped thing andthe two contacts. I hope that no fool has messed with the camera electrics, e.g. changed it to another voltage. The jacks being black and red make me suspicious about this, though. Perhaps pilottone? But this would not be very useful with this camera.

[ericMartinJarvies]

well made huh? i wonder if there is a noticable differance in the actual film quality between the 16mm film cameras. you know what i mean? in other words, they all basically serve the same purpose which is to let light to the filmstock itself, so if you are able to expose the film correctly, you should be able to acheive this on any 16mm camera, correct? so aside from the better made, stronger arri, eclair, cp, etc. camera bodies, do you think that the film quality itself changes between the camera types?

thanks

[cineandy]

Hi, mine has something similar but with a right angle xlr socket attatched, something to do wth sync sound recording, think its a tone or sync generator,on my one if you remove it you can see the device engages on a large gear wheel within the camera, though my newer st only has a xlr socket... neither of my cameras have those red and black contacts next to it... where did you get your camera...

[BK]

Hi Jean,

Nice camera! Was it expensive? At one secondhand shop here in Hong Kong they have a Arri st body going for US$300, pity there are no lenses with it otherwise I would just hand over the cash immediately.

My wild guess of that yellow cast in the viewfinder is the cement that they use for glueing two pieces of optics together, and it has gone yellow with age. The same thing happened on one of my Canon 814XL-S, did managed to take it apart and remove the old cement, wouldn't do it again though, took me a couple of frustarted days and nights figuring it out and putting the camera back together. :evil:

Bill

[jean]

Eric,

again, only theory, since i have no comparison - in image quality the cameras should all perform the same, if there are differences then due to better or worse condition of the camera and lens. And you can have the same lenses for all 16mm cameras, i believe. The lens makes the image, so that should (in theory) bring equal image quality for all candidates. I can imagine though that no rotating turret and bayonet mount (that does not wear) after decades should perform better since they are less prone to wear and abuse. The Arri has a registration pin, that might result in a more stable image, but i never heard anyone complain about jitter with a r16. In super8 the differences are huge between my beaulieu and my consumer bauer cameras, really visible for anyone, but then these cameras were worlds apart with all possible differnces from lens to the film gate, etc. On 16mm, with equal lenses, there should be no difference at all between the different brands. That's my guess

well made huh? i wonder if there is a noticable differance in the actual film quality between the 16mm film cameras. you know what i mean? in other words, they all basically serve the same purpose which is to let light to the filmstock itself, so if you are able to expose the film correctly, you should be able to acheive this on any 16mm camera, correct? so aside from the better made, stronger arri, eclair, cp, etc. camera bodies, do you think that the film quality itself changes between the camera types?

Hi, mine has something similar but with a right angle xlr socket attatched, something to do wth sync sound recording, think its a tone or sync generator,on my one if you remove it you can see the device engages on a large gear wheel within the camera, though my newer st only has a xlr socket... neither of my cameras have those red and black contacts next to it... where did you get your camera...

Yes, peeking in the camera with the motor removed, i can see that the cylinder is connected with the camera's original gears. When I have it running, i will measure if and what kind of signal is there. At least it seems to be output and not input..

The camera is from ebay and the seller had no knowledge whatsoever of the camera, but quickly and honestly answered my questions. It came in a custom made aluminium case, where all accesories, the lenses, two 400' mags, matte box, and a lot of stuff are nicely fitted in, so i believe the setup was complete like this used by pros for a long time, until replaced by something else. The camera was dirty and smelly, but insides were quite ok, gears still have oil - i hope it has been maintained and serviced until its last days of use. :?

[jean]

Hi Bill,

Nice camera! Was it expensive? At one secondhand shop here in Hong Kong they have a Arri st body going for US$300, pity there are no lenses with it otherwise I would just hand over the cash immediately.

Not dirt cheap, but given all the accessories and lenses, arri tripod (to much to list here) i thought 800€ was not a bad price. Even when the camera itself turns out to be total loss, i would have A LOT of other stuff to soften the fall. And i saved myself a lot of time, having all in apackage instead of sniping each lens alone.

300$? That's not much, indeed. Is there a chance to test the camera? If it runs, i'd go for it. heck the viewfinder for orange cast The lenses are not really expensive, have a look at ebay, but make sure that they have the correct mount. Everything seems cheaper than e.g. comparable bolex stuff. The next step up would be eclair, i guess!

My wild guess of that yellow cast in the viewfinder is the cement that they use for glueing two pieces of optics together, and it has gone yellow with age. The same thing happened on one of my Canon 814XL-S, did managed to take it apart and remove the old cement, wouldn't do it again though, took me a couple of frustarted days and nights figuring it out and putting the camera back together. :evil:

Hmm, color cast in viewfinder should then be one of the things to watch out for with these old cameras, something to ask ebay sellers, e.g. I can live with it, but it's annoying, and using real filters will be much harder.

[supa_ate_sixteen]

The difference you will find in 16mm cameras are mainly in registration. If you have read on the Arri cams they have a pin registration that holds a solid frame in place for ever 24 that pass the gate each second. Registration and lenses are the only real factors that will affect the 16mm image from camera to camera.

The yellowish cast probably means your ground glass is old and colored from age. You can get a new one from Du-All camera in New York.

The thing sticking out the side is a pilotone generator that you would hook up to a Nagra or other analog recording device that workds in conjunction with the pilotone signal. There is a special Arri 60 hz sync motor that works with the plugs sticking out the side I believe.

Check ebay for the motor and Du-all for the ground glass.