Diy telecine unit

[ronnoco]

There has been an incredible amount of interest in this DIY telecine unit which I have advertised on a certain auction site.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0284152553

I know members of the forum are looking at the unit and some of you have contacted me about the unavaiability of the capture program Cinecap. Cinecap was available to the general public to purchase until last weekend when Alternaware's website went down for a day or so. When it came back up the program purchasing policy had changed. Cinecap is now only available to purchasers of Moviestuff products...go figure.
I have tested this DIY unit with an alternative freeware stop motion capture program and it works very well with this piece of software.

Just a shame that the guy who wrote Cinecap will loose out on a few sales.

[MovieStuff]

There has been an incredible amount of interest in this DIY telecine unit which I have advertised on a certain auction site.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0284152553

I know members of the forum are looking at the unit and some of you have contacted me about the unavaiability of the capture program Cinecap....

Just a shame that the guy who wrote Cinecap will loose out on a few sales.

But not as many as if he left it up. I helped to develop CineCap. Jeff wrote the software based on many trials and experiments that we did together and used a lot of my input into the architecture of the software. For the last 7 years, it has been publicly available to anyone that was a DIY person or experimenter. We did not care about that at all. But then some people started occasionally building and selling their own versions of the WorkPrinters and Snipers. Again, that is something that we tolerated. But then they started selling multiple copies of our units and we suspected they were also selling pirated versions of the software. These people had no shame and were going so far as to actually copy entire sections of my copyrighted website.

Beyond the obvious legal issues, there were some practical issues that we needed to control. These WorkPrinter knock-offs being offered looked exactly like mine but the people selling them never offered a warranty or customer service. They just snatched the money and ran. This has been quietly going on now for a couple of years. The occasional sale of a knock-off doesn't affect my bottom line. However, when multiple copies of these second-rate units end up being resold to someone else and then they have a problem and contact us thinking they have a MovieStuff unit and are dissapointed we won't help them or someone on another forum starts talking about our products and the person with the now-malfunctioning MovieStuff clone potentially posts, "I have one of those. They suck."....Now THAT'S an obvious problem.

Also, I am sure you have seen people selling their WorkPrinters on ebay. Well, what you probably don't know is that only 1 out of about 4 are really legit. The others are people selling nothing. They don't have a WorkPrinter of any kind and are just selling a photo they snatched from my website. They never had a WorkPrinter and were just running a scam because they know our units hold their value.

So, we decided enough was enough.

Removing CineCap and CaptureMate from public availability means it is easy for us to find these people that are selling pirated versions of the software because all we have to do is make an anonymous phone call or email to them, ask where we can get the software, and if they say they will sell a copy of the software along with the unit, then we can legally shut them down. As you have noted, there are alternatives out there and if someone is determined enough, they will figure out a way to get around the issue. But, legally, for me to protect my business, I had to show due diligence in addressing this matter or I lose my right to certain legal remedies later on due to complacency.

I am sorry this makes it more difficult but you can thank people like this guy, who has made a CineMate knock off that he says is frame by frame but implies uses CineCap and CaptureMate, even though it requires no computer! :roll:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0292492420

At this point, we are discussing releasing a version of the software for DIY experimenters with an agreement for non-resale and use only for the unit they have built for themselves. But the days of a free-ride for people selling knock offs is over. Sorry for any inconvenience, guys. But I should have done this a couple of years ago.

Roger

[granfer]

Roger, Well said!!

As a legitimate purchaser and user of CineCap, and as a long term (but now retired) businessman in the AV field, I applaud your action.
My business ethos was always based on the old adage "Honesty is the best policy" and I am proud of the fact that in all my business dealings I have never "screwed" a customer or supplier. Being in that line of business I have always considered "pirating" or "copyright theft" as exactly that.....THEFT.
You are entitled to enjoy the fruits of your labour and the despicable actions of others are seen to be even worse by the laudable way you have made your advice freely available on this Forum and others.

CineCap was not expensive, and both you and Jeff should be praised for your generosity to the experimenters fraternity. More power to ypour elbows

Granfer

[MovieStuff]

CineCap was not expensive, and both you and Jeff should be praised for your generosity to the experimenters fraternity.

Well, again, I need to stress that our decision to limit the availability isn't a reflection of concern about people building DIY units for their own use and we actually agonized over that issue. Discussions are ongoing about how to service that market. In fact, the archives of this forum will reveal that I have provided mucho information about how to get the most out of building your own unit and have provided the same info for people that have called and asked for help. But when the same people that I helped to perfect their DIY system start mass producing units when they promised they would not, that really pisses me off.

I have already had one guy email me that said I HAD to sell him the software or he would sue me and said I was unethical. My response to him was, "Okay, so you copy my design to compete with me when you said you wouldn't after I helped you get your unit going and you are going to question my ethics? Get real." Of course, he's an idiot. We never sold the software to begin with. He's just honked because he sold a knock-off to someone and they want their money back now that they can't get the needed software and he has a shelf full of units that he can't move. Of course, if wasn't so supremely lazy, he'd do a search and realize that there are several other animation programs out there.

So this is just a deterrent designed to slow the proliferation of knock-offs and to give me a history of due-diligence if we need to take legal action. And this does not come without a price, because all this time I am taking to do this is going to be reflected in the price of both our products and the software, ultimately. All this sucks big time. Why must some people be shmucks?

Roger

[ronnoco]

Hmmm...you keep using the phrase...'Knock offs'...

I built my unit following the instructions found on the 'onsuper8' website..that site suggests Cinecap as the software to use with the unit I eventually built...nowt to do any moviestuff product at all.I dont regard my unit as a 'moviestuff' knock off...its just a DIY unit I built myself following instructions freely available on the net.

Also as you said yourself...Cinecap has been pirated. If you remove the legit source where you can buy the software people may start looking elswhere to obtain it.

It aint hard to find !

[Blue Audio Visual]

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Maybe the plans wouldn't have been up on Onsuper8 without Cinecap, and Cinecap wouldn't have been out there without Roger Evans?

[MovieStuff]

Hmmm...you keep using the phrase...'Knock offs'...

I built my unit following the instructions found on the 'onsuper8' website..that site suggests Cinecap as the software to use with the unit I eventually built...nowt to do any moviestuff product at all.I dont regard my unit as a 'moviestuff' knock off...its just a DIY unit I built myself following instructions freely available on the net.

I explained my reasoning precisely above. I never said your unit was a knock off. My beef is with people that are making copies of my units and selling them in direct competition with me using information that I provided. They know who they are and sometimes read and post on this forum and others. If these unethical people have caused problems for honest people like yourself, then you know who to blame but I have a legitimate concern and I won't apologize for protecting my interests.

Also as you said yourself...Cinecap has been pirated. If you remove the legit source where you can buy the software people may start looking elswhere to obtain it. It aint hard to find !

They can do as they damned well please. I have no responsibility to make it easy for them.

Roger

[MovieStuff]

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Maybe the plans wouldn't have been up on Onsuper8 without Cinecap, and Cinecap wouldn't have been out there without Roger Evans?

Well, the bottom line is this: I am the source for the whole idea of frame by frame scanning of super 8 and 16mm motion picture film using a video camera. There was nothing like it on the web prior to my WorkPrinter and the CineCap software was developed specifically for the WorkPrinter by Jeff. He bought one of my earliest units and, like most people, was using Premier to capture with. But then he contacted me about writing something specifically for the WorkPrinter and that is how it came about. So I am in essence the chicken and the egg. But, again, this isn't about bragging rights. This is about protecting my efforts and preventing people from getting ripped off by unethical sellers. This isn't about trying to shut down people that want to build their own unit for their own use. It is unfortunate they are in the cross fire for a bit but we are working to try and accommodate their needs as well. But for now, this is just the way it is.

Roger

[MoonstruckProductions]

I mean no disrespect and I understand where you are coming from Roger, but all this time I thought Cinecap was just a capture software that could be used with the Workprinter. I didn't know it was made specifically and exclusively for the workprinter. With that knowledge, why did I have to pay extra for the Cinecap software? Why didn't it come with my workprinter? It's kind of like buying a capture card from Blackmagic and then having to pay extra for the software to use it.

I'm not actually griping about it because it doesn't really matter if I paid $50 to Alternaware or if I paid $50 extra for my Workprinter with the software included, but you can see how people felt the Cinecap software could be used with any stop motion machine.

-Scott

[Blue Audio Visual]

This is crazy. Roger & Jeff are both free agents, and can choose to do whatever the hell they like (within reason). If they have come to an agreement between themselves then that is entirely up to them. Presumably Jeff could seek whichever sales avenues he may choose for his software and is not beholden to Roger in any way. He has chosen only to supply it to Moviestuff customers, I'm sure he is capable of weighing up the pros and cons and making a decision based on what is best for him. I'm pretty certain Roger hasn't gone round to his place with crowbar in hand to 'convince' him to do as he says. This isn't a case of big business screwing the little guys, it is two people trying to ensure that they make a living and see some financial reward for their hard work. Good luck to both of them.

[granfer]

Hear, Hear !

Granfer

[MovieStuff]

I mean no disrespect and I understand where you are coming from Roger, but all this time I thought Cinecap was just a capture software that could be used with the Workprinter. I didn't know it was made specifically and exclusively for the workprinter. With that knowledge, why did I have to pay extra for the Cinecap software?

Actually, long ago when I increased the price of my units for the first time, I actually knocked $50 off the projected price of the unit before putting it on my website so people would be able to afford the software. So, in reality, you paid nothing extra! ;)

Why didn't it come with my workprinter? It's kind of like buying a capture card from Blackmagic and then having to pay extra for the software to use it.

BlackMagic makes the software and the card. I don't make or sell the CineCap software and Jeff doesn't build the telecine units.

I'm not actually griping about it because it doesn't really matter if I paid $50 to Alternaware or if I paid $50 extra for my Workprinter with the software included,

I don't write software and Jeff doesn't build hardware. It would make as much sense for me to sell software that I can't offer tech support on as it would be for Jeff to sell hardware that he doesn't know how to service. Jeff doesn't work for me and I don't work for him. We have a working relationship built on trust and mutual satisfaction.

but you can see how people felt the Cinecap software could be used with any stop motion machine.

Understood and we had no problem until some people that knew better created a problem.

Roger

[MovieStuff]

This isn't a case of big business screwing the little guys, it is two people trying to ensure that they make a living and see some financial reward for their hard work. Good luck to both of them.

Thanks. But this is also about protecting the buying public from frauds and to protect us from having to deal with these unhappy customers that think they got a MovieStuff unit from a reseller. It is more complicated than is obvious on the surface.

Roger

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

My beef is with people that are making copies of my units and selling them in direct competition with me using information that I provided.

Oh, definetly. Everyone selling more or less knock-offs who are linking directly to Moviestuffs webpage do so in direct competition.

The decision to make the software "a WP only" is totally logical.

He's just honked because he sold a knock-off to someone and they want their money back now that they can't get the needed software and he has a shelf full of units that he can't move.

Ha, ha, wonderful! :lol: I bet he is going nuts. :mrgreen:

[MovieStuff]

[

He's just honked because he sold a knock-off to someone and they want their money back now that they can't get the needed software and he has a shelf full of units that he can't move.

Ha, ha, wonderful! :lol: I bet he is going nuts. :mrgreen:

Well, the truth is this it makes me feel bad. But I've been pushed into a position where I just have to either bend over and take it or defend my own livelihood. So this isn't just about software or hardware but it is also a matter of principle and ethics. I find it all to be really unpleasant. I take no satisfaction in all this.

Roger