230 degree shutter

Post by **dantheman** » Sat May 17, 2003 10:27 am

Heya,

Which cameras have a 230 degree shutter (or larger)?

Best
Dan

Post by **dantheman** » Sat May 17, 2003 3:50 pm

...And which cameras have smaller shutters - how low do they go? The 801 macro has a 75 degree shutter when you put it on reduced shutter.

Dan

Post by **S8 Booster** » Sat May 17, 2003 4:08 pm

Most XL cams have 220Ã‚Â° shutter angles. Some 200Ã‚Â°. Do not know of any 230Ã‚Â°+ cams.

Some info:

Shutter speeds for various cams:

Also( http://jl-site.com/Super8/ShuterSpeed.html )

R

Post by **dantheman** » Sat May 17, 2003 4:42 pm

Yes, I think it must be urban legend. Michael Nyberg site refers to a Chinon - “the one with the 230 degree shutter and f1.1 lens” – which I can’t seem to locate. City-net.com says (wrongly) that the Elmo 1012s xl has a 230 degree shutter as well as the “Super 311”. Kolumbus.fi (camera list) says “some older cameras may have opening of 160 degrees and newer XL cameras even 230 degrees”.

But the only one I could find was the Yashica Sound 20xl:

Year: 77-79, Weight: 1200 g, Lens: Zoom 1,1 / 9,5 - 19 mm, Fixed Focusing, Manual Zoom, Frame rates: 18, Shutter degree: 230, Auto Exposure (Not TTL), Remote control socket, Auto / Manual Recording Level Control, 6 X 1,5V batteries, Made in Japan,

Has anyone used this camera? Is it any good?

Daniel

Post by **S8 Booster** » Sat May 17, 2003 4:49 pm

CanÃ‚Â´t really help you out but one camera that is close is the Canon 310 XL with a 220Ã‚Â° shutter and a 1.0 lens. It is a quite simple cam for 18 fps only and auto exposure with a backilght function so it depends what you need a camera for.

R

Post by **rurgis** » Sat May 17, 2003 11:18 pm

hey!

can anyone tell me what shutter the leicina special has? and iwhat degree it would have, or a equivavelent that i could plot into my light meter?

i also have a canon 1014xls, and according to the list posted in this page it have the option of a 220 or 150 degree. im a bit puzzeled cus my manual says 160 and 220. can anyone confirm so i can set my meter right the next time? havent had any problems really with it but...

Post by **Angus** » Sun May 18, 2003 12:35 am

I have a feeling the Kodak Ektasound cameras might have a 230 degree shutter, but those are only really suitable for junk.

Chinon 1200SM has a 150 degree shutter which produces excellent detail and does a good job on motion even at 18fps.

Post by **filmman35** » Sun May 18, 2003 6:56 am

The first consumer super 8 cameras (and one of the few) to offer 230 degree shutters was the Kodak XL-33 and XL-55 cameras. There were a couple of other models from Kodak, I believe the XL-320 but those cameras all looked the same with the "Binocular" style body. The Ektasound cameras also had 230 shutters.

GAF/Chinon cameras generally were equipped with 220 degree shutters and but had a slightly faster lens. However, unlike other camera companies, the Kodak cameras did not use a reflex viewing system nor did they have through the lens metering, both of those features "ate" some of the light going to the film and was left off the camera design.

I had read a long time ago that having wide shutter angles like the 230 shutter made it a challenge on the design of the pulldown claw system in the camera because the claw had to pull the film down to the next frame to be exposed rapidly during the short time the shutter was closed and if not designed well, could cause image instability.

Post by **S8 Booster** » Sun May 18, 2003 7:32 am

rurgis wrote:hey!
i also have a canon 1014xls, and according to the list posted in this page it have the option of a 220 or 150 degree. im a bit puzzeled cus my manual says 160 and 220. can anyone confirm so i can set my meter right the next time? havent had any problems really with it but...

The 1014 XL-S/814 XL-S use 150Ã‚Â° as default and 220Ã‚Â° as an option. The internal light metering system/exposure control will automatically readjust to any setting on the camera that affects the exposure.

The system is blistering fast. I have done tests that shows that the exposure adjusts the aperture in less than 1/100th of a second.

R

Post by **Maurizio Di Cintio** » Sun May 18, 2003 2:04 pm

How can I quote someone's post?
Thank you

Maurizio

YouTube · Post by **Andreas Wideroe** » Sun May 18, 2003 3:44 pm

Click the quote button next to the post you want to quote.

/Andreas

Post by **Maurizio Di Cintio** » Mon May 19, 2003 3:57 pm

Of course...

Thanks, Andreas. I was a little puzzled before asking, because there is a "quote" button on the "Post a reply" button too, which I have tried several times but always fruitlessly.

Ciao.

Maurizio

Post by **Maurizio Di Cintio** » Mon May 19, 2003 9:46 pm

[quote="

I had read a long time ago that having wide shutter angles like the 230 shutter made it a challenge on the design of the pulldown claw system in the camera because the claw had to pull the film down to the next frame to be exposed rapidly during the short time the shutter was closed and if not designed well, could cause image instability.[/quote]

I find this hard to believe: even with a 230Ã‚Â° shutter, you have (360-230=) 130Ã‚Â° of obscuration time to have a frame transported; that's a lot, since the slowest projectors' claws perform pull down with an 80-90Ã‚Â° shutter blades.

So theorically a 270-280Ã‚Â° shutter cam could be manufactured. One might ask why a cam like this was never manufactured. One answer might be that shutter apertures wider than 220Ã‚Â° tend to produce a blurred image on each frame, even in the background (due to a much too long exposure time per each frame), thus too poorly sharp and lacking in details even for an amateur camera.

My guess.

Greetings

Post by **filmman35** » Mon May 19, 2003 11:31 pm

>So theorically a 270-280Ã‚Â° shutter cam could be manufactured. One might >ask why a cam like this was never manufactured. One answer might be >that shutter apertures wider than 220Ã‚Â° tend to produce a blurred image >on each frame, even in the background (due to a much too long exposure >time per each frame), thus too poorly sharp and lacking in details even >for an amateur camera. > > >

I agree. The cam design should not matter as you said. Whoever wrote that article I read must have not been given all of the information.

I also agree that a 270-280 shutter cam would create blurry images especially on fast moving objects. I had an old GAF-made-by-Chinon XL camera from 1973 and it had a 220 degree shutter and sometimes the motion blurred pictures gave me headaches when watching them on a large screen.
8O

That problem went away when I switched to a camera with a 150 degree shutter. The 220-230 shutters were really best for home movies in low light applications, although, I can see some creative filmmakers using the wide shutters for artistic reasons. 8)

Regards,
Richard

Post by **S8 Booster** » Tue May 20, 2003 12:55 pm

Imagine an electronically programmable LCD shutter based on the same chip technology used in LCD projectors. Some light loss but the most advanced and flexible shutter available.

Could be something like this:

Want an XL 300Ã‚Â°?
Want 37.5Ã‚Â° or 1Ã‚Â°?
Want Loooonnnnngggg time exposure?
Want double exposure??
Want?
Want??
Want?? :?:
Get!
Get!!
get!! :!:

And of course the light metering sensors are built into the chip. Measuring the array when it is shut and the cells have the same electrical characteristics as solar cells. More light = more electricity.
Could be with the next gen real movie cams! :!:

Never to be seen though :?

R

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