D-76

[mr_x]

Hi,

just developed two b/w films in D-76

the first was Tri-x 7266, which developed perfectly

the second was Retro-x / ORWO UN 54, which came out cooked (black), even the edges of the film are black, nothing visible

now, i did attempt to solarise the Retro-x, by exposing the film to a few seconds light - has this 'fogged' the entire film, please? 8O

presumably, if this was an exposure problem, the frames would be black but the edges would be transparent, showing the film code lettering, and so forth? Both films rate @ asa 200.

so either i fogged the film in the darkroom, or the developing tank is not lightproof?

the camera is tried and tested, so i don't think the trouble lies there?

any suggestions, please?

thanks

Ric

[mattias]

some kind of backing that you didn't remove? i seem to remember some reversal stocks needing the reversal step to get rid of it, they can't be processed as negatives.

/matt

[richard p. t.]

I think you fogged the film. In my experience a solarizing flash should be virtually instantaneous. If you did anything like 2 seconds it will have made it really dark I am afraid. the orwo stock processes just the same as Tri-X so its not a stock issue. Solarizing is a real gamble. Its best done with a print not camera original film so that if you stuff it you can do it again.
good luck with it,
Richard

[steve hyde]

...yeah, it sounds like your attempt to solarize the film cooked it and turned it into a dense black mass of silver. A few seconds is an eternity. Think shooting F 1.4 at 4 seconds in daylight..It's just too much light.

There is no anti-halation backing material on black and white reversal films. That is a color negative thing.

My advice is to try to get your timing and solution down before experimenting with solarizing and other techniques. Once you get your method figured out -then try that.

I have had good results using D-76, 7266 and a Lomo tank. I rate the film at 100 during shooting and then process for 15 minutes..

[mr_x]

thanks guys

1st attempt at solarising - time to drown my sorrows in an orgy of binned ciné film?

never mind

actually very pleased with the D-76, which came in powder enough to mix up 3.8 litres of developer, and keeps - if airtight - for 6 months; the relatively huge volume was worrying me, but i found a 5 litre container to mix up the whole batch, which can then be decanted into 1 litre squeeze bottles

am messing up on the temperatures too - colour reversal film seems to require high temperatures, whereas b/w develops at 20°C (68°F)? So i am also cooking this film - pushing it too far?

developed 2 b/w films in Lomo tanks - one loaded perfectly, the other somehow cross-threaded 2/3 of the way through the film: not a diaster, because this was a sort of 'control' experimental development, but i still need to figure out why the second Lomo spiral misbehaved: my guess is, i left off tension on the film, whilst winding it on, to allow it to somehow twist itself out of the spiral grooves?

onward

Ric

[mr_x]

I have had good results using D-76, 7266 and a Lomo tank. I rate the film at 100 during shooting and then process for 15 minutes..

Steve, when you say you rate it, do you mean you have an asa dial on your ciné camera (like on analogue stills cameras), or are you doing something else, please?

thanks

Ric

[steve hyde]

...rating it at asa 100 instead of 200 (7266). Yes setting the dial to asa 100 if you have one or your light meter. This is overexposing the film by one stop. You just have to try things until you find what works.

Just plan on destroying at least a half dozen rolls and you'll probably get it figured out in about 4. Just make sure you have something ready for the Santorini Super 8 Film Festival... http://www.festivaldetours.org/

[mattias]

There is no anti-halation backing material on black and white reversal films. That is a color negative thing.

now that i realize that he exposed the film for 2 seconds i'm sure that's it, but i'm fairly certain there are both reversals and black and white stocks that have various kinds of backing. are you absolutely sure?

/matt

[mr_x]

There is no anti-halation backing material on black and white reversal films. That is a color negative thing.

now that i realize that he exposed the film for 2 seconds i'm sure that's it, but i'm fairly certain there are both reversals and black and white stocks that have various kinds of backing. are you absolutely sure?

/matt

Hi

i recieved this from ORWO:-

"For ORWO UN 54 to be developed as a negative, you require to process it under ORWO processing instruction 1182. The exact detail of this can be found on the Filmotec.de English web site under Processing Instructions, where full information is given. The recommended developer is ORWO 17 or Kodak D 96. If you have a completely opaque negative, it is also possible that it has all been accidentally fogged."

so, it looks as if an anti-halation backing is not a feature of this film type?

of course, i used D-76 instead of D-96, but i wouldn't have thought the 76 would have had such an unfortunately dramatic effect on the development of the film?

many thanks

Ric

[mr_x]

Hi Steve,

...rating it at asa 100 instead of 200 (7266). Yes setting the dial to asa 100 if you have one or your light meter. This is overexposing the film by one stop. You just have to try things until you find what works.

will need to get my head round this - my cameras do not have ASA dials: i well understand what you are saying in theory, but in practise, i need to dwell on it

Just plan on destroying at least a half dozen rolls and you'll probably get it figured out in about 4.

:lol: the roll i was saving to send off, i will now develop over the weekend - i just have to see the Retro-X develop!

Just make sure you have something ready for the Santorini Super 8 Film Festival... http://www.festivaldetours.org/

oh gosh - thanks - will i ever have anything ready for anything, though ~ but maybe the journey is all?

bests

Ric

[steve hyde]

...just practice with it. If your light meter tells you to shoot F5.6 , shoot an F4.
Like this (asa 500: F11) (asa 250: F8) (asa 125: F5.6) (asa 64: F4) and so on..
see the pattern. If your camera reads your 7266 (asa200) and tells you to shoot an F5.6 you can effectively shoot at (asa 100) by shooting F4...

Matt,

I'm certain that the E6 ektachrome films and black and white reversal motion picture films don't have rim-jet antihalation backing. I can't explain why. Too bad John Pytlak is not around to explain why. Color negative has it. My limited understanding about this is that color negative is more prone to holding a static charge, which can create little sparks in the camera and fog the film.

Also once the rim-jet backing is removed during processing the static charge comes back. This is why it is so easy to get dust on the negative after the film has been processed. It becomes like fly paper - literally attracting dust onto the developed film..

Does a positive image hold a different charge than negative? I don't know...

[richard p. t.]

Yes, E6 has never had a rem-jet antihallation backing. Though stocks that can more or less be processed in E6 like fujichrome do have such a backing as we all know. I don't know of any bw stock ever having a rem-jet antihallation backing. But certainly not having a rem-jet backing is not the same as not having any anti-hallation backing or other anti-hallation component to the film. Foma for instance uses a silver anti-hallation backing. There is some anti-hallation system with e6 stock, its just not a rem-jet one.
I understand that colour neg uses rem-jet for a few reasons: its a comparatively cheap method of anti-hallation. It also helps with anti-static and transport inside the camera mag.
Static isn't greater with processed neg than processed reversal ... except that neg usually isn't lubricated or anything while it is advisable to do that with reversal film ... though few labs do in my opinion.

[mr_x]

...just practice with it. If your light meter tells you to shoot F5.6 , shoot an F4.

think i got you - when the meter registers 5.6, set up the shot, switch over to manual metering, and open the aperture out to F4, one stop?

this will allow more light in, and reduce the contrast of the print?

conversely, shooting at F8 would accentuate the shadows and contrast?

thanks

R

[mr_x]

I don't know of any bw stock ever having a rem-jet antihallation backing.

well, i will know by the weekend, cos i'm going to develop the second roll of Retro-x in D-76, without solarising it. if it comes out opaque again, at least i will know that i don't know what is going on :o

lol

Ric

[rufus_blackwell]

Hi Guys

Really helpful chat here.

I have just bought the lomo tank and I am intending to dev my own kodak plus-x 16mm b+w reversal films. I was just wondering which chemicals you used for the process? The title of this thread obviously being one of them.

Thanks

Rufus