Telecine Condenser lens supplier?

Post by **Roving6** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:53 am

I'm in the process of building a DIY telecine rig and was wondering if anyone could suggest a good source for a 115mm condenser lens (as mentioned on super8telecine.co.uk site.) Are there any alternate or better choices for lenses?

I'm planning on using the Eumig 610> condenser lens> mini DV camcorder, frame-by-frame capture with CineCap method.

Thanks in advance for any advice. I did a search, but didn't come up with anything....

Nathan

Post by **adamgarner** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:25 am

I called Roger at Moviestuff for the same thing a while back. He said they weren't able to give out their suppliers name, clearly because that wouldn't be in their best interest as a business. Good luck finding out where to track one down. Hope someone can help.

Post by **Rollef** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:53 am

You can buy a large magnifying glass with about 2x. They are easy to get. Get the biggest one you can find. Still it might not be big enough and you might have some vignetting.

Some optics dealer will have the real deal. Edmund optics, maybe?

Its more easy to put a 80/85 mm lens from a slide projector and reduce the light in the 607/610 than the condenser set up. Search and read one of my older threads.

Post by **MovieStuff** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:40 pm

adamgarner wrote:I called Roger at Moviestuff for the same thing a while back. He said they weren't able to give out their suppliers name, clearly because that wouldn't be in their best interest as a business.

To be clear, we used to sell condenser lenses separately but we stopped for several reasons:

One is they represent a huge liability. Even though we would state very, very clearly on the website that you needed a low intensity, diffused light source, buyers would simply stick the lens in front of a regular projector with a non-modified light source and risk blindness because you are essentially looking into an arc welder if using the original projector bulb.

The other reason we stopped selling them is because most people buying them were trying to save money by not purchasing one of our units, which is understandable. However, after selling the condenser lens, I would find myself spending hours on the phone trying to explain how to modify their projector to work with the condenser lens because the buyer simply had no knowledge of optics nor mechanics. This was often more time than it would take to build the unit they were trying to avoid purchasing! Obviously there is a limit to how helpful I can afford to be in that situation.

And, finally, the lens supplier was very, very specific when we set up our deal in that we were not allowed to reveal their name to customers. They only sell to companies and, usually, they only sell in large quantity of several thousand at a time. They made an exception for us to provide lenses at a lower quantity but did not want to be pestered by individuals trying to make single purchases.

I've never had a problem with people trying to build their own telecine units and have given out free advice many times. I do not see it as a threat to my business, which is mainly selling to small telecine shops run by people that have not time to build hobby equipment. But we no longer sell condenser lenses nor can we provide source info for many practical reasons as outlined above. I wish the liability weren't so high because we sold a lot of lenses several years ago. It was a fast moving product but, alas, too many numb-nuts that won't read instructions or warnings spoiled things.

Roger

Post by **ronnoco** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:45 pm

Search for 'Plano convex lens' rather than condenser lens...see what ya come up with.
I have a couple of 115 diameter lenses but they are a bit on the chipped side...scratched too...so maybe not really suitabe...I used em for practice until I purchased a brand new lens off US ebay for $9 and had it posted over the pond for a few bucks....still way cheaper than buying one here.
A good source for them are old traffic lights..apparently

Good luck with your search...I built the the same system you intend to put together..it works pretty well..so go for it !!!

Heres a recent 'real time transfer' using the system...frame by frame is even better...does not have the strange 'jumping' caused by stop motion footage..it was just a little excercise to let my film club kids see themselves on film...

http://looksharpfilms.blip.tv/#744837

Post by **onsuper8** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:52 pm

Look on eBay rather than going to optical suppliers it cost far less. There are a few specialist glass companies around who can supply such elements, but they do cost.

The one used in the instructions on super8telecine.co.uk (and I know cos the unit is sat next to me) came from an enlarger and just happened to be in the right ballpark size wise!

Post by **James E** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:30 am

Are a Plano Convex and a field lens the same thing? Do the both creat an areial image to focus on?

Post by **Roving6** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:36 am

Thanks to all who offered their advice. I'll let you know how I make out with this project. I had good luck converting 16mm film using a modified projector with a cut away shutter, a photo interrupter to sense the position of the claw and Capture Mate, shooting "off the wall". (I think I said CineCap in the earlier post- I meant Capture Mate.) I'm now trying to get a bit more professional with the optical end of the chain and hope to see some good results converting 8mm & super 8 films.

Does anyone care to compare the "shoot directly into a slide projector lens attached to the projector" and the condenser lens methods?

Nathan

Post by **Rollef** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:03 am

Roving6 wrote: Does anyone care to compare the "shoot directly into a slide projector lens attached to the projector" and the condenser lens methods?

Nathan

I'll only speak for my experience. Roger is one of the telecine gurus here so listen to him.

I did the slide projector thing on recommandation from some other forum members after not beeing happy with the results from my diy condensor setup. I did not have a "real" lens so to speak, I used a magnifying glass because it was easy to get. So was the slide projector lens. I needed to adapt the lens a bit for the projector, but there is only the videocamera to set up and align, so I can take it all down and put it away when I don't use it. For me the condenser set-up was harder to align, and more space- consuming.

Ultimately I get better results from my slide-lens setup than (fake?)-condenser set up, quicker and easier. That sealed the deal for me.

Post by **ronnoco** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:26 am

Rollef

Ultimately I get better results from my slide-lens setup than (fake?)-condenser set up, quicker and easier. That sealed the deal for me.

Rollef would it be possible for you to post a photo of your slide projector lens telecine setup ?

Thanks

Mike

James E

Yes they are one and the same and provide an ariel image to focus on for telecine purposes.

Post by **Rollef** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:57 pm

viewtopic.php?t=14302

Post by **ronnoco** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:35 pm

Thanks Rollef

I remember that post now !

Post by **Roving6** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:54 pm

Rollef,

Thanks for the lens tip. I was able to secure an 85mm Wetzlar lens, so we'll see how that works out once it arrives.
----

I've been busy modifying my Eumig Mark 610D. The problem is that the shutter interrupts the image multiple times for each time the film advances when the projector is set to the slower speeds. I don't care for the brightness variations that can cause, even with the slowest shutter speed on my camcorder.

I've decided to take a similar tactic to when I was doing my frame-by-frame 16mm transfer; slow the motor down and remove the projector's shutter.

I epoxied a pulley on the back of the existing synchronous motor, added a belt and am driving it with a smallish DC motor to allow for variable speed.
I'm working on a good speed control circuit and will report back when I'm at the next stage.

Nathan

Post by **chachi** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:04 pm

Not sure about the 610d, but my eumig 607dx had a 3 blade cast aluminum shutter. It was simple to break off the blades using a pair of small curved needle nose pliers.

Also, I took apart my Durst Enlarger and found that it had 2 condensers as well as a 45deg mirror housed inside. Funny thing is that once you remove the bottom condenser, your actually left with a condenser and mirror already housed in its own case. You do need to flip that condenser around, but still you could use it as is in the actual enlarger case without having to furnish your own out of plywood.

I'm in no way saying this would be better, just easier...

Post by **Roving6** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:19 pm

chachi wrote:Not sure about the 610d, but my eumig 607dx had a 3 blade cast aluminum shutter. It was simple to break off the blades using a pair of small curved needle nose pliers.

That's exactly what I did as well, only I left one of the three blades. (only one of the three blades actually "mutes" the picture (if you'll pardon the audio metaphor) when the claw is moving the film. The other two blades must be to increase the frequency of the on-screen flicker to make it less noticable. With this set up, I'm now getting completely flicker free transfers- the slower motor running speed gives plenty of time for the camera to complete a frame capture before the shutter blocks the light again. I'm still not happy with the optical quality of my transfers, but I'm filming off the wall. Once the lenses are here....

Nathan

ps: I forgot to mention the reason for not removing all the shutter blades. If you leave one, you can still use the projector as a projector when you're not doing telecine. Flicker is noticable, but it's a viewable picture.