Sync sound camera for super 8 ?

Post by **thomas_wust** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:04 pm

Hello,

I am new to this forum and I am new to super 8.
I plan to shoot a promotional clip for a company. They would like to have it shot on FILM. I decided to use Super 8, because they (and I) like the somehow retro look of this format. Now my problem: we need to do some interviews with sync sound. So I need a camera
1) which can record the sound on the film or
2) which is capable of running with crystal sync
Some people have told me that sound film is not available any more. Is this correct? (sometimes people have told me SUPER 8 is not available any more... and this is incorrect) So I ask you experts about sound film to be sure.
If it is not available, which camera is capable of running crystal sync?
People have told me I have to go for a Beaulieu. But there are so many models. Which one would be correct for my purpose?
Thank you for your help in advance,
Thomas

Post by **jpolzfuss** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:13 pm

Hi,

a) Welcome

b) Yes, Kodak (the last company to produce prestriped Super8-film in Sound-cartridges) stopped producing "soundfilm" approx. 15 years ago. You can still buy old carts from before. But the quality of those films will be "reduced" when the films haven't been stored in a freezer. ("reduced" = film might turn out blueish or pinkish or even completely black)
The only way to get fresh sound film this century is to buy 60m (or more) of "raw" Super8-film, get it striped in a darkroom (e.g. at fipra), then using this film in a Beaulieu SuperDrive SD8/60 or filling it yourself in your own darkroom into old Agfa sound-carts... . Nevertheless this adds at least 2 EUR per meter to the film's price!

c) Pro8mm is selling a crystal sync'ed Super8-camera called "Classic Pro". It's a remanufactured Beaulieu 4008. The camera is also sold via Wittner.
The other Beaulieus that were sold with built-in or optional crystal sync are compared here:
http://super8wiki.com/index.php/Beaulie ... comparison

Nevertheless you're not restricted to Beaulieu as e.g. Du-All rents a crystal-sync-box for the Canon 1024XL-S:
http://www.duallcamera.com/catalog/inde ... eras.shtml

The film group still offers a crystal sync conversion for various cameras:
http://users.aol.com/fmgp/sync8.htm

d) There's another sync-method as well: Recording beeps for each frame on the sound-recording device and later use the beeps to sync the sound on the PC:
http://www.super8sync.com/English/R1008MD.html
http://users.aol.com/fmgp/sync11.htm

JÃƒÂ¶rg

Post by **thomas_wust** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:37 pm

Hello JÃƒÂ¶rg,

thank you very much for your quick and very helpful answer.
I have visited the recommended websites. Very impressive and informative.
I will forget about sound film. Too risky with old stock and too expensive with new stock.
About the Beaulieu / Pro8 Cameras... I have to think about it. In the moment I have not the money to buy a new / remanufactured one for this single project. But maybe I will go more into Super 8 filmmaking after this experience. If I understand correctly, those types would work for my purpose: 6008PRO, 7008PRO, PRO8MM, 7008PROII, 9008PRO.
Would this camera be a correct choice?:
http://cgi.ebay.de/BEAULIEU-7008-PRO-mi ... dZViewItem
Even if the prices doubles it would be much more in my current financial range.

Thank you again for your help,
Thomas

Post by **jpolzfuss** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:01 pm

Hi,

it looks like 7008Pro only has got an optional crystal sync (not sure about this!). And I don't know if that option is included in that auction (besides: that camera on eBay lacks the battery holder!)

As you'll only need the camera for a single project (at least at the moment), renting might also be an option:
http://www.nacamera.com/super8.html
http://www.kortzundsuess.de/verleih-kortz-suess.html
http://www.nexfilm.de/ (but it looks like the camera isn't crystal sync'ed)
(and of course Du-All - link s. previous posting)
(there might be more)

JÃƒÂ¶rg

Post by **thomas_wust** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:48 pm

Hello,

renting is a good option, but I would love to get my own Super 8 camera. I have found this part for the battery

http://www.beaulieu.de/pages/s8_azub4.php?rubr=s8_azub4

"Akkubox fÃƒÂ¼r Mignon-Akkus und Batterien"

this should work for the 7008 camera. But what about the crystal sync?
How can I use this option?

Thank you,
Thomas

Post by **johnnhud** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:48 pm

How about if you shot film and set up a miniDV camera to record the audio? Since it's digital it shouldn't need the crystal sync to keep it in time. If you use a clap board, you should just have to manually sync each clip one time as long as your using fresh batts in the camera.

Worst case would be only one or two minor variations as your batteries die, but those can be fixed pretty easy in post.

It would be much cheaper, you could use a cheap s8 camera and you probably already havea access to a miniDV one.

Post by **Termin8Anakin** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:49 pm

johnnhud's right. I was just about to suggest the same thing.

Forget about trying to find a sound S8 camera. Silent cameras are a LOT easier to find, and a lot more of them were made.

Syncing sound is VERY easy in any NLE suite as long as you have the clapper sound and correct footage.
In Avid, all you need to do is select the right clips, insert in-points where the clap sound and clap frame match, and Avid syncs it automatically!

Make sure the camera is filming at 24fps otherwise there'll be some very noticable problems for syncing that'll only give you some extra hassle.

Post by **thomas_wust** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:58 pm

Hello,

thank you very much for all the advice.
I was able to get a Beaulieu 6008 PRO with 25 fps crystal (cheap) from a friend. Now I will be able to test both possibilities. But using this camera I will get an accurate frame rate I hope. This will help. I will do some tests next week to find out if the camera works correctly.
You all have been very helpful and friendly, thank you again very much.

Thomas

Post by **Jim Carlile** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:27 am

You can always do interviews on tape or digital and re-film them with a super 8 camera, too. Just make sure it's either an XL camera with a wide shutter angle, or set the shutter to the XL (220 degree) setting. That eliminates roll-bar.

You can try it at home first as a test. If you shoot them as B/W they also look cool and very retro filmic. A little like 8mm kinescopes.

This will save you mucho dinero on film stock, too, because you can edit the interviews and only film what you need.