Good experiences with 64t in 40/160 only cameras.

[Chris-B]

Has anyone had 64t that has been way over exposed (blown out) due to over exposure in a 40/160 only camera.

I have shot a fair few cartridges now with both 40/160only and cameras that read the stock correctly and have not had any problems at all, it's all come out fine and never looks over exposed and never blown out.

I'm worried that talk about over exposer might put people off using super 8 as they think they will not be able to shoot 64t (the most readily available stock).

So far the cameras I have used that are 40/160 only that have exposed 64t well are -
Eumig 860 and Nautica
Sankyo EM 60 XL and EM 40 XL
Zenith 1 x 8S-2 set to 50asa then filter to Sun

Mostly outside on a sunny days and the Sankyo EM 60 XL and Zenit were used indoors under tungsten as well with great result.

Any other good experiences?

Chris.

[Muckymuck]

Hey Chris,

The Zenit(h) 1 x 8S-2 isn't a 40/160 only. The 50 ISO setting means the 64T film is only overexposed by 1/3 of a stop- not enough to be noticeable.

The results I had in the early days of 64T with a Sankyo EM40-XL and EM60-XL weren't bad exposure-wise, but I did notice when I used the manual exposure to correct it the warmth and saturation improved noticably.

If you're looking for "acceptable" results, I'm sure many 40/160 cameras are fine (though looking at the Pete Dougherty footage shows this isn't always the case), but if you're looking for "good" or "perfect" results, best get a camera that can read it properly or adjust with the manual function.

[Chris-B]

Sorry about the spelling error.

The Babyshambles talk was what sparked the idea for this topic off. Who knows how the footage was shot? I was wondering about 1st hand experiences not just speculation.
As I think this kind of talk can out people off using super 8, especially now that 64t replaced k40 and is not prepaid. It makes super 8 more difficult to shoot for new starters and might put off people from using it for the first time all together.

I have had average to good results with 40/160 cameras but never poor, bad or unusable.

I know what you mean about perfect results giving better warmth and saturation and your right.
But I don't think it should let it put people off 40/160cameras.
I'd rather throw a 40/160 camera in my rucksack to take on holiday, rather than my DV camera!

Any other 1st hand experiences of 40/160 cameras with super8?

Chris.

[Muckymuck]

Babyshambles stuff was shot with a Canon AF310-XL.

I agree it shouldn't put people off trying a 40/160 camera. If they're happy with the result that's great, and many cameras will be near enough anyway.

A new list is required I think- 40/160 cameras which give an acceptable result with 64T (though what is "acceptable" is subjective I suppose. Perhaps "which wouldn't put off a first-time user" is more like it?)

[Clapton Pond]

As I've mentioned on this thread

- viewtopic.php?t=18236 (BTW, thanks for your contribution Chris...) -

my Bauer S209XL seemed to cope fine with 64T and it's a 40/160 camera, unlike my mate's Bolex Macrozoom, which gave really blown out images even though it's not a 40/160 camera.

ian

[aj]

This E64T exposure seems very much th new eternal topic. In a camera with one feelerpin it will be exposed either as 40 or 160. Depending if the feeler is covered or not. So it is either 2/3 stop over-exposed or 1 1/3 stop underexposed.

Some cameras cannot do this better then others (with one pin). Likely these were off in the good direction before getting a 64T cartridge in.

Constantly having your exposure off by 2/3 may seem bearable but it is wrong and you lose out to quality.

[Chris-B]

About your pals Bolex Macrozoom are saying it's inability to expose properly is down to using 64t? As I have said from my experiences I have never had any badly exposed 64t in a 40/160 camera.

I think the Bolex Macrozoom may have had a faulty exposure meter if it was totally out, so would this camera have been able to cope with k40 correctly regardless of the 64t notch issue?

If the Bolex Macrozoom is a 40/160 only camera and the top notch reader is pushed in by the 64t cartridge then it could not have been more than 2/3 a stop out which would be fine on projection.

If the Macrozoom reads other stocks then it would most likely read is as 40t, if it can not read 64t. You could check this out with the notch ruler on the super8 wiki.

Cool to hear that your Bauer S209XL coped fine. Sorry to hear about the footage from the other camera. There is nothing worse than when you spend all that time on a film only to find that it hasn't turned out well.

Chris.

[Chris-B]

I personally prefer to be exposed correctly for projection and over a little (so 2/3 over is perfect) for telecine, as 2/3s over seems to come out better on telecines. With 2/3s over telecined footage there is less gain, also I don't think 64t handles shadow areas very well so the extra light brings out more detail in the shadows in telecine.

If shooting on auto then you are never going to get great results every time, unless you zoom into the subject to take the light reading, lock the exposure and zoom out before shooting. When doing this you can just close down by 2/3 manually on most manual cameras.

The casual shooter (this often includes me) when out and about would just leave it on auto point and shoot. If I was worried about my exposure being spot on I would never use the auto exposure mode in the first place.

So, my point is that if you want perfect exposure you can use a 40/160 camera with auto and manual exposure. Manual mode can be compensated, but if using auto your exposed your film will not always be perfect anyway and you should expect acceptable results but you should never expect perfect results on auto mode regardless of the film stock used.

I feel the 64t issue is being blamed for any exposure issue. It's like, my footage is over exposed, well it must be the 64t issue. I think people should check that their camera is not at fault before blaming poor old 64t.

I haven't yet used a 40/160 that gave anything worse than good results with 64t on auto exposure mode, and I've used a few now.
So, in future if I get a camera that gives bad results on auto I would check if it is reading it as 40/25asa first (pushing the notch reader in), if it is then I would assume that it must be the exposer meter that was out.

Has anyone had any issues where the 64t notch is large enough to make a camera think it is 160 tungsten film, as this is the only major issue I can see if you only ever use auto mode?
I mean if the pin is so low down that the 64t cartridge can not push it in?

If more labs offered a pull process (cheaply) like nanalab.com.au this would be less of an issue.

I still don't think the 64t issue really an issue, but it certainly is a taking point!

Chris.

[Clapton Pond]

About your pals Bolex Macrozoom are saying it's inability to expose properly is down to using 64t? As I have said from my experiences I have never had any badly exposed 64t in a 40/160 camera.

I think the Bolex Macrozoom may have had a faulty exposure meter if it was totally out, so would this camera have been able to cope with k40 correctly regardless of the 64t notch issue?

If the Bolex Macrozoom is a 40/160 only camera and the top notch reader is pushed in by the 64t cartridge then it could not have been more than 2/3 a stop out which would be fine on projection.

Cool to hear that your Bauer S209XL coped fine. Sorry to hear about the footage from the other camera. There is nothing worse than when you spend all that time on a film only to find that it hasn't turned out well.

Re the Bolex Macrozoom: on the Kodak page - it says it misreads the notch. On the Super8 wiki it says it reads the notch - well done the internet for clearing that one up... :?

I think you're right about the exposure meter - maybe a case of dead batteries...

Yes, I was chuffed about the Bauer as it's a really nice camera, but pretty miserable about wasting the magically perfect conditions we had for the shoot... Still, you live and learn.

ian

[svejk]

The Bolex 150/155/160 cameras have a kind of sloping wedge-shaped thing rather than pins to read the cartridge notch, so in theory they should be able to read everything between 40 and 160ASA (this is what the manual claims, anyway). Not sure how this works in practice.

[super-8-epiphany]

Has anyone had 64t that has been way over exposed (blown out) due to over exposure in a 40/160 only camera.Chris.

After talking to a few very knowledgeable and experienced film processors, they all say the same thing- the new 64T has a lot of latitude and you can shoot it in a 160/40 camera and get good results- even stellar results. Personally I'd lean towards a camera that read 64T as 40 and overexposed it. But either way, you're going to get a viewable image.

[Esoteric]

Hi Clapton,

I was extremely interested to read of your experiences with your Bauer.

I have an S409XL and an S609XL, but have not dared to waste a 64T film in it. However, having heard what you have to say, I'll give it a shot. It's got to be worth a try now, in the 'light' :o of your results!

You're absolutely right, the Bauers are a delight to use!

Up to now, I have used Cinevia 50, but still had the occasional cartridge jamming problem which we all know about.

BTW, anyone know when this is likely to be resolved for super 8 cartridges?

I have been shooting with standard 8 and 16mm in the meantime.

Best to all,

[Clapton Pond]

Hi Clapton,

I was extremely interested to read of your experiences with your Bauer.

I have an S409XL and an S609XL, but have not dared to waste a 64T film in it. However, having heard what you have to say, I'll give it a shot. It's got to be worth a try now, in the 'light' :o of your results!

You're absolutely right, the Bauers are a delight to use!

Hi Dave

I thought it was worth a cartridge - as the Aussies say, "You don't want to die wondering."

And as a lot of people have said in various recent threads, the 64T seems to be a lot more flexible now than it was in the beginning, so it could well be good news for all those 40/160 cameras out there.

cheers

ian

[Esoteric]

Say, Ian, where do you purchase your 64T films, and who do you have process them?

I don't use telecine or any other conversion - I project straight from my Elmo ST1200-HD.

I usually purchase all my filmstock from John Schwind, and have various labs around the world do the processing, but none in the UK!

I have always tended to steer clear of The Widescreen Centre both because they ruined one film, and also on price. I think "7 day shop" might be worth a try. What do you reckon?

[Muckymuck]

The Widescreen Centre send their films to Andec and cost you the same as if you were to send it yourself without having to convert euros and post it to Germany. They probably make only a small profit by sending at bulk rates to Andec.

I wouldn't worry- I've used Andec both through Widescreen and directly and never had a problem- the one film you had a problem with was probably just a one-off.