16mm Projector Recommendations for DIY Telecine

Post by **fogo** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:11 am

Hi all,
i'd like to start organsing a 'parts list' for a 16mm diy telecine project and would like to hear members advice regarding suitable projectors for conversion. Any advice or experiences appreciated,
ade

Post by **ALAN** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:21 pm

Check out a group called 8mm Forum. They have a 16mm forum as well.

Post by **fogo** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:44 pm

Thanks Alan, Im in no rush at the mo.

ps if you want any details of telecine using a Focotar give me a shout.

ade

Post by **wado1942** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:04 pm

Just make shure it has a 5-blade shutter and an AC synchronous motor.

Post by **ALAN** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:19 am

M. fogo,

It would be interesting to know how you mounted the focotar to your camera.

39mm>c-mount adapter > c-mount extention tubes?

Regards, alan

Post by **jaxshooter** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:07 am

Steer clear of Kodak Pageants.They are awesome projectors for basic projection,but for some reason,they will not hold a proper speed for telecine no matter what kind of motor you put on them.It comes up to some ridiculous 23.75 fps or some such nonsense.At any rate,you'll always get a flicker.One of the cheapest I've converted for telecine are the old Bell and Howell Filmosound series and Graflex Singer,no external motor is usually needed,and even if you do have to put a SelSyn motor in,they're easy to rig in those machines.I've heard Eiki's work well,but I have no experience with them.

Post by **Mitch Perkins** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:03 am

jaxshooter wrote:One of the cheapest I've converted for telecine are the old Bell and Howell Filmosound series and Graflex Singer,no external motor is usually needed

Seconded. Around here they're always under $100.00.

Mitch

Post by **VideoFred** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:15 am

Hey Fogo,

You have followed the 'Trigger' threads, right?
Why not considering a machine cam with trigger?
You will have a higher resolution, too.
And all your sync problems are solved, this way.
You can use any decent projector.

-Remove the shutter blades.
-Make the speed adjustable.
-Add a simple optical switch.
-Rebuild the light source
-Remove the projector lens.
-Build a console for the camera.
-Start transfering

It is not possible to record sound, this way

But picture quality will be very good.

Fred.

Post by **jaxshooter** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:15 pm

That's all great,now I have a question.Has anyone ever tried telecine transfer with a double band interlock projector such as a Siemens or a Bauer.Where you have one side 16mm picture and the other 16mm mag sound fullcoat?

Post by **vidwerk** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:32 pm

Mitch Perkins wrote:
jaxshooter wrote:One of the cheapest I've converted for telecine are the old Bell and Howell Filmosound series and Graflex Singer,no external motor is usually needed
Seconded. Around here they're always under $100.00.

Mitch

I have a Graflex Singer. Any plans on the conversion?

Cheers.

Post by **jaxshooter** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:03 pm

When I was doing transfer full time,I had a partner who was the techie and did the actual conversions.However,if memory serves,the only thing we did to the Graflex was change the shutter to a five blade,I seem to recall it held speed well enough without having to change out the motor.I also seem to recall that the Graflex came apart easily with very little effort.I would suggest you look for a repair manual for your model of projector that should have exploded diagrams showing how to access the shutter.A repair manual for just about anything can be found online.You might also post your questions here:http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/extern ... 4252459605.
.There are many folks there that are projectionist/engineers who can offer very good technical advice.

Post by **fogo** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:23 am

Thanks for all the tips and info everyone!

I'll let you know how the search progresses!

Ade

Post by **MovieStuff** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:29 pm

I have found that Eiki projectors are very reliable and ultra easy to work on.

Roger

Post by **clivetobin** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:36 pm

MovieStuff wrote:I have found that Eiki projectors are very reliable and ultra easy to work on....Roger

The Eiki has the problem that parts are no longer available. The pulldown claw is soft and develops grooves in the teeth with heavy use; this can be fixed for a while by filing them down. Also when the cam tank goes out you are out of luck. The framer adjustment does not move the claw, just the aperture, which is no help at all in a transfer machine; you would need to physically re-aim the camera to adjust framing.

The Kodak Pageant projectors are excellent except the pulldown is relatively slow so you get almost no light through a 5-bladed shutter, though this wouldn't be a problem in doing slow scanning. The forward-stop-reverse switch lever tends to crap out on the AV-126 series and also it causes such a vibrational shock that a 300 watt lamp tends to burn out instantly. This could be fixed by putting in a low voltage higher current lamp with a sturdier filament. The older "horizontal" machines with the takeup reel hanging over the table edge have a governor motor with arcing contacts and the static leaks into the audio and perhaps into a video camera. I don't think most mechanism parts are available any more.

The Bell & Howell 500-1500-2500 series projectors are a bitch to work on. Also some 80-90% of them have a cracked main worm gear which will eventually part wide enough to cause stalling or rough running. This said, we use the mechanisms to make our TVT-16 telecine machines and just figure on replacing all the worm gears (at around $300 each mostly for labor) with new crack-proof ones. Parts are mostly readily available except for one gear in the slot-load models. This is a preferred situation overall for our customers in terms of any repairs needed in future.

Elmo machines are probably fine, apart from the lack of a proper framing adjustment as in the Eiki, and the fact that most parts are no longer available.

There are lots of other projector brands out there, but most are not found in sufficient quantity for reliably robbing parts out of.

The RCA 400 is a good machine but most will not run in reverse.

Post by **MovieStuff** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:52 pm

clivetobin wrote:
MovieStuff wrote:I have found that Eiki projectors are very reliable and ultra easy to work on....Roger
The Eiki has the problem that parts are no longer available.

I know of no 16mm projectors that are still being made. Eiki chassis are common as flies, so parts are no problem (though we've never needed them!).

clivetobin wrote: The pulldown claw is soft and develops grooves in the teeth with heavy use

It would have to be pretty heavy use. We have not found that to be the case at all and we have units out there used daily for the last 5-6 years, including the one in our own shop. But the claw is easily replaced by removing two screws. So even if a claw did wear out beyond redemption through filing, it can be easily replaced in under a minute by the user. Very servicable in design.

clivetobin wrote: Also when the cam tank goes out you are out of luck.

As you would be with any part on any projector that wears out. You then replace it with another part. But, again, we have had units out there for years without ever having this problem.

clivetobin wrote:The framer adjustment does not move the claw, just the aperture, which is no help at all in a transfer machine; you would need to physically re-aim the camera to adjust framing.

Actually, that is one of the reasons we prefer the Eiki projectors. The claw does not move for framing but is in a fixed position. The Eiki has terrific registration as a result. Moving the camera or projector is easy, compared to attenuating a worn framer mechanism.

Roger