Sound on 16mm

Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:01 am

Hi. Quich question

I have been searching google an d yahoo for hours and i am really wanting to know what the standard type of sound was for comercially released movies on 16mm.

Can projectors with only mag sound read the sound?
I need to know the answer before i go to bed or i won't be able to sleep. (SAD..... I know)

Thanks

Post by **Alastair** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:38 am

I think the answer to your question (if I've understood it correctly) is no. Generally, 16mm prints of commercial releases had an optical soundtrack - variable area or variable density. Magnetic sound-striped 16mm film is less commonly found and was used when it was desirable to be able to record location sound "in camera"; this avoided the need for a separate tape recorder/recordist and meant that film footage was ready for viewing or screening as soon as it had been processed (without the need for transfer and synchonisation of audio tracks). It was often used in the acquisition of footage for television news, when a rapid turnaround speed was required (and before the era of lightweight ENG equipment).

As far as I know, most 16mm projectors in circulation today have an optical sound reader only, and some are dual standard - optical or magnetic. I don't think many offer only the magnetic option.

I hope this reaches you in time to give you a good night's sleep.

Alastair

Website · Post by **BigBeaner** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:42 am

From what my knowledge, you edit 16mm and 16mm fullcoat/mag stock, once all your mag stock was set you could usually play it on a double sync system (which is rare) or send the mag stock with your 16mm film (usually the negative) into the lab, everything properly labeled with proper sync marks, amount of leader and academy leader then they would make a print that would put the film optically onto the 16mm track. Most projectors are optical.

Post by **wado1942** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:08 am

Magnetic sound-striped 16mm film is less commonly found and was used when it was desirable to be able to record location sound "in camera"; this avoided the need for a separate tape recorder/recordist and meant that film footage was ready for viewing or screening as soon as it had been processed

Not true. Almost all location audio for news gathering uses optical sound. All the Auricons had optical sound. I've seen some CP-16s with magnetic sound but they are not common. The only time I've seen magnetic sound actually being used was for recording narration over the top of a previously shot film.

Website · Post by **BigBeaner** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:40 am

I think the point was more or less the projectors that mag stock could be used for sound aren't as commonplace. My intro film class mostly just used the sound as I described before.

Aren't you guys agreeing with each other though?

Post by **wado1942** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:14 pm

Well yeah. Almost all projectors do optical only. I'm just saying that mag sound is rare even under the circumstances described.

Post by **jaxshooter** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 6:17 pm

Not true. Almost all location audio for news gathering uses optical sound. All the Auricons had optical sound. I've seen some CP-16s with magnetic sound but they are not common. The only time I've seen magnetic sound actually being used was for recording narration over the top of a previously shot film.

Auricons with optical sound were used waaaay back in the very early days of TV news.By the mid/late 1960's it was all mag sound.Auricon offered a "Filmagnetic" piece that was installed in the camera that had the rollers and mag head.Have you ever seen the amplifiers for optical sound cameras?They were huge,heavy monstrosities.The mag amplifiers were about 1/4 the size and weight.By the time the CP 16's came out with built in amplifiers,the TV news industry was already changing to ENG.

When I started interning back in the mid 70's,there were still some Auricons on the street,but they were all mag sound.By 1976 film was pretty much gone in my market.

I have seen some 16mm productions that used mag striped prints.These were small venue showings,usually for tourist attraction type of shows.When I worked in a film lab,we had one for Cypress Gardens,shot on Ektachrome and printed on mag stripe stock for later dubbing.

Post by **wado1942** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:43 pm

Have you ever seen the amplifiers for optical sound cameras

OH yeah, my company shot a silent film on an Auricon a little while ago and we used the optical sound for reference later. My goodness the sound was terrible but then, the sound shutter wasn't working right in the camera.

Post by **jaxshooter** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:40 am

Back in 1980,I was hired by the John Birch Society to film their seminars and functions.We had full 16mm production facilities then and we were just getting into video.Video equipment was exhorbitantly expensive then and they wanted a three camera shoot.It was actually cheaper then to film in 16mm black and white than it was to rent decent 3 tube video cameras,a switcher , 3/4 inch decks and a graphics generator.

We used three Auricons,all fitted with optical sound amplifiers to get three angles of the speaker on the podium.We also shot an opening title sequence,where we set up an American flag and a Bible and shot two passes on a Bolex,one of the BG and the other of the titles.We then rewound the film,loaded it in an Auricon and recorded music on the track.

The sound quality was OK,not great but it served the purpose.Very primitive way to work,but we had fun with it.

Post by **wado1942** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:10 am

Yeah but I bet it looked WAY better than it would have looked if shot on tube cameras and 3/4" decks. I've never liked tube cameras and I've never liked 3/4". I'd rather record to SVHS than 3/4" but then, that didn't exist yet.

Post by **jaxshooter** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:42 pm

Yeah but I bet it looked WAY better than it would have looked if shot on tube cameras and 3/4" decks.

It had kind of an old '50's TV look to it,especially since it was lit with 3 point lighting.Kind of a Perry Mason look.The later seminars we shot on video lacked the character,that's for sure.It really fit the subject imo with the black and white film.It was shot on Tri X Reversal.

Post by **mattias** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:48 pm

jaxshooter wrote:an American flag and a Bible

haha, that's hilarious. no blasphemy against either implied, it's just such a cliche...

/matt

Post by **jaxshooter** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:02 pm

mattias wrote:
jaxshooter wrote:an American flag and a Bible
haha, that's hilarious. no blasphemy against either implied, it's just such a cliche...

/matt

Well when you're being paid to do a film for a specific client,you cater to that specific client's tastes.

Actually I really enjoyed working with the JBS,they were a really nice group of folks who suffered a very bad rap.