Fuji film in a Kodak cart = Longer load?

[MovieStuff]

Okay, is there a mathmatician in the house?

Long ago, a buddy of mine had a Fuji single 8 camera and we used to cram about 30 feet of Eastman film into his used single 8 cassettes. 30 feet was about all you could fit because the Eastman film was thicker.
Now, it occurs to me that since single 8 is still being made and is only about one third the thickness of Eastman film, then some industrious person could perhaps load Fuji single 8 film into a (new, jitter free) standard super 8 cart. The question is: Just how much extra film could be loaded? I mean, if the film is only a third the thickness, wouldn't that mean you could have a third more film? Or would that mean two thirds more film?

Just imagine, a standard super 8 cart with about 83 feet of film. That would be about about a continuous 4 minute run (I think). Anyway, while some have tried having Fuji film perfed and loaded, the perfs seemed ragged but Fuji apparently does not have that problem and I would imagine it would run smoothly. The only questions are A) will the thinner film run correctly and B) the footage counters will go bonkers.

Hmmmmm. Anyone got a phone number for Fuji?

Roger

[MovieStuff]

Ahhh! My brain just exploded. What if we could load Single 8 film into a 200 cart?!!!! That would (I think) give you an extra 132 feet or so. Yippeeee! 332 feet or about 15 minutes per load. (again, I'm estimating in my head and am terrible at math so this could be totally wrong)

Roger

[flatwood]

thats an interesting thought. we did some shooting on fuji (400 neg i think it was) 16mm last year for a music video and i was very happy with the results by the time we got it telecined. if the fuji is actually 1/3 the thickness of kodak then wouldnt you be able to get approx three times more film into the super8 cart??? i dont know the details but i like the idea. thanks for posting the question. surely fuji has a website!!?!
-=rob in rural tennessee usa

[SOB Offline]

http://www.fujifilm.com/JSP/fuji/epartn ... mePage.jsp

R

[SOB Offline]

B) the footage counters will go bonkers.
Roger

Cams allowing 60m carts will have counter to deal with all up to 60m/200 ft like Elmo 812 1012 S-XL.

R

[Lucas Lightfeat]

IF the film were exactly a third of the thickness, then you could spool twice as much again than the thicker film. If in this case we "know" that 30' of Eastman film fits in a 50' cart, and again we "know" that the Fuji film is precisely a third of the thickness of Eastman, then the immediate figure that springs to mind is 90', but this is not taking into consideration other factors, such as the tightness of spooling; spooling is never super-tight, and probably shouldn't be either, in which case some margin should be allowed for the extra spacing involved - perhaps 10', so I would say 80' on a 50' reel and 320' on a 200' reel, which would hypothetically render you with a 15 or 16 minute shooting reel, as you say. Sounds good to me. Is it possible to reload a 200' cart though? Perhaps you could adapt one, Roger? Good luck - sounds worthwhile trying.

Lucas

[guest from Japan]

check out this Japanese site!
http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~s8mmeiga/page021.html

[Daniel]

Hello,
Thank you for the Japanese link info. By this path I found the following link (translated through babelfish) :

http://cine8-16.vis.ne.jp/guide.html

This link is not related on current topic (reload film), but is very interesting anyway as camara, projector etc...source inventary with many pictures for several 8mm formats.
Regards,
Daniel

[S8 Booster]

check out this Japanese site!
http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~s8mmeiga/page021.html

Well, the land of the rising sun!: Fuji Single8 Sound Cartridge with a Canon 1014 XL-S. Actually seen this before but forgot all about it. Do not know if this is the same site where I saw a company modify originally fixed lens S8 cams to accept interchangable professional video cam lenses from Canon & Fuji.






Another one - reloadable high capacity mag? - Guest can you explain?


R

[Guest]

Thinner/different film stock in Kodak carts would probably cause mechanical misadjustment and jitter troubles. Kodak carts are exactly designed to work with Kodachrome stock in terms of thickness and friction. Even with VNF stock which is slighlty thinner, jitter increases and focus is not as good as with K40. The only chance for thinner stock in Kodak carts with that floating plastic pressure plate would be the Andec additional pressure plate made from stainless steel.
Pedro

[Carlos 8mm]

Hi folks,

a friend of mine wrote to Kahl in Germany about Super 8 Fuji stocks. Here is the reply from Kahl:

Hola Senor Sanchez Villoldo,

we receive a lot of mails every day. So our answers are very short and Quick:
----- Original Message -----
From: ROBERTO SANCHEZ VILLOLDO <roberto_sanchez_v@hotmail.com>
To: <info@kahlfilm.de>
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 2:13 AM
Subject: Super 8 film raw-stock

>
> Dear gentlemen of Kahl Film:
>
> I'm very interested in the Super 8 films stocks that you sell. I have
> received very good comments of Argentinean and European filmmakers who uses
> your film stock, and personally I have been able to observe their quality.
> European Super 8 filmmakers told me that you offer Fuji 250T negative >stock in Super 8 format which it isn't shown in your WEB Page. Is it >possible?

yes you ´ll find it in next days on our site!

greetings

Kahl Film & TV Service
Postfach 15 60
D-50305 Brühl
Fon +49 (0) 2232 92 26-77
Fax +49 (0) 2232 92 26-78
http://www.kahlfilm.de

Concise but interesting reply, Isn't?

Carlos.

[MovieStuff]

check out this Japanese site!
http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~s8mmeiga/page021.html

Now that is just too fricken cool. I want one so I can see how it's put together. Looks like metal. I wonder if they're still made?

Roger

[Carlos 8mm]

Long ago, a buddy of mine had a Fuji single 8 camera and we used to cram about 30 feet of Eastman film into his used single 8 cassettes. 30 feet was about all you could fit because the Eastman film was thicker.

Roger,

If you can load only 30 ft. of Kodak film into a Single 8 cartridge let´s do a little bit of mathematics:

50 ft ________ 100%

30 ft_________X= 30 ft x 100% /50 ft= 60 %

This means that Fuji polyester base stocks loaded into Super 8 50 ft cartridges can give 40% more time to filming (Fuji´s base is 40% narrower than Kodak base).

So running at 24 fps:

50 ft of film: time of shooting: 2´30"

70 ft of Fuji film stock= 2´30"= 150" → 150" +( 40%= 60") = 210"= 3´30" → 1 minute more of shooting at 24 fps.

At 18 fps (50 ft): 3´20" = 200" → 70 ft: 200" + (40%= 80")= 280" = 4´40"
of shooting.

Carlos

[Lightfeat]

Yes Carlos, but Roger was suggesting that 30' of Eastman film went in, not Kodachrome, and that Fuji film is 1/3 the thickness of Eastman film, not 40% thinner than Kodak.

You may be right, but we are doing different maths. Is Fuji really 1/3 as thick as Eastman, and is it really 40% thinner than Kodak? Perhpaps somebody can measure them. Then we will know what we're calculating properly. Our results are quite different.

Lucas

[Carlos 8mm]

Is Fuji really 1/3 as thick as Eastman, and is it really 40% thinner than Kodak? Perhpaps somebody can measure them. Then we will know what we're calculating properly. Our results are quite different.

Yup, It´s only a speculative calculation. The best thing would be to load a opened Super 8 cartridge with Fuji Single 8 polyester base film until filling the cart and then measuring the length of the film.

Carlos.