R8 Camera Suggestions, or pipe dream?

[mercyboy]

Somebody on here once suggested a Bauer C2A as my first film camera...and it was great advice. I now have three of them (those plastic handles love to split!) and I've made loads of transfers using a WorkPrinter.

But with all of the transfers that I've done of other people's footage, I can't help noticing that the older R8 film usually looks many times better than S8...both in terms of rich/deep colors and playback smoothness. (And I just did a batch of R8 that had natural image exposure almost completly across the sprocket side of the film, giving it a wide aspect ratio...though with the sprocket holes showing of course. They're not sure of the camera, but think it might have been an old B+H.)

I've read a bunch of posts on here about R8 cameras, but still haven't read anything that made me think...."ahhhh, R8 is still good stuff and this is the camera model for me!" I've been looking at some of the older Bolex (H8, P1, P2, etc.), etc., cameras that only take R8 film. I really like the vintage look of those things...even the ones that have reflex lenses added on with the telescope-like viewfinders. If I went that way, I guess that means buying Cine Chrome 40 from Dwayne's, winding up the spring and shooting away if it's in great condition, then sending back to Dwayne's for developing??? Or am I asking for headache's and results not much better than what I'm getting with S8...which aren't that bad. And do you think R8 film is going to be available for several more years??? (I was thinking about 16mm, but don't feel like buying another WorkPrinter before Roger comes out with his HD solution!)

I'd only be happy if both the camera and the footage are considerably different than what I'm getting now with the C2A. (Here's some typical footage taken during a visit to a friend's ranch...that's my wife with the shotgun while I hide behind my Bauer for protection [30sec clip / 14MB]: http://mercyboy.com/forums/2006_03_Merc ... _fscom.mov ) Anyway, I've got pleanty of digital video cameras on hand when needed, so another film camera would be just for the fun and experience of it. Budgetwise, anywhere from 1 cent to USD $1k max.

Thanks in advance!


PS: One of the annoying things about the C2A is that all three drop dead in very cold weather! I hate that...I want to shoot in some icy outdoor locales this winter without worry about batteries and motors stopping.

[Jon]

Its because reg 8 camera have a real pressur plat like 16mm witch can give a much steader picture over cart based system iv noticed the same thing.
i got caonon DS8 and cant wait to see how its going to look in super 8
compared to carts
Jon

[sciolist]

The Bolex H8 RX4 is my choice for a great regular 8mm camera, since it has a registration claw as well as a pressure plate, accepts 25-foot, 50-foot, and 100-foot loads, and can be fitted with electric motors. In addition, it accepts many of the accessories of the H16 RX cameras, including a rod support system, matte boxes, grips, and intervalometers. Conversions of the H8 RX4 to DS8 are still done by Jaakko Kurhi, and so, as with the Canon DS8, you can have the image size of Super 8 without suffering the shortcomings of the cartridge. You could buy an H8 RX4 with a nice set of Kern-Paillard Switar lenses and have the conversion done for less than $1.0K.

[mercyboy]

Is there any significant difference between the H8 REX 4 and the earlier non-reflex H8 models if I'm happy to use an add-on reflex lens?

Looking at the excellent http://www.bolexcollector.com site, I only note that some have different variable speed settings...but I can live with that. What I absolutely cannot live without is the ability to use a release so the camera can run on its own while I get into the frame. These Bolex H8s have a standard cable release socket for that? (Can't quite tell from the photos.)

Thanks again!

[sciolist]

I believe that Bolex H8 cameras having a serial number below 100401 do not have the registration claw, just an ordinary pull-down claw. Image steadiness is improved with the registration claw.

As far as the 'self-filming' feature goes, I believe that all H8 models have a release selector on the side of the camera allowing the operator to lock the camera in the run position (you don't need a locking cable release). Alternatively, there's a Bolex self-timer that can be used to delay the camera start until the operator has gotten into the picture. These self-timers appear routinely at eBay. There are adapters fitting both the front and side releases of the camera that permit the attachment of this self-timer as well as standard cable releases.

[Super8rules]

I still use my trusty Kodak Brownie that I've owned since I was 10 (1974) that I got from my grandmother.

I haven't run any film through it in several years, but when I did, the stuff looked fantastic.

Another thing to add to the equation is the film stock. I have some of my grandparents home movies from the 40's, 50's and 60's and they are far superior in color to most of todays stuff. There is a richness to the colors back then that you just don't get from modern stocks. You can even see it in the color films of the 40's and 50's. They seem to glow.

[mercyboy]

Thanks for the info....especially about the serial number tell-tale.

I'd like to order some R8 film now since I'll definitely be getting a camera for it soon. Is the Cine Chrome 40 K14 Regular 8 x 25ft from Dwayne's a good choice? (I'd like as little grain as possible for this; smooth and deep.)

[super8man]

Don't forget that most regular 8mm cameras had prime lenses and not zooms. You can sometimes tell when the poor wide angle lens is attached but the normal 10mm primes are fantastic, generally speaking. With few elements, ther are easy to make sharp compared to zooms, such as on your C2a. To be fair, I don't think the optical coloration that your C@a gives is all that great...basically run of the mill. Neovaron I think? Sort of a basic lens that looks a bit "cold" on reversal with a strange tint to the finished image.

Anywho, pick up a slight better, more optically simple camera (regular 8 or Super 8) and you should see much mo bettah results.

And yes, the richness and saturation of early films can be drop dead fantastic compared to the reversal stocks of today. Since Kodachrome is officially dead on all fronts (Dec 31, 2006 K40 is dead in 16mm), negative filmmaking will be all that's left - Ektachrome is not even in the running here. Then you will simply correct the color and saturation on a computer. Sigh.

Me? I am sticking with B&W.

[richard p. t.]

Use Ektachrome 100d! I think its a great stock for R8 - really sharp and really colourful and cheaper in R8 than super 8.

[Bolex Collector]

I believe that Bolex H8 cameras having a serial number below 100401 do not have the registration claw, just an ordinary pull-down claw. Image steadiness is improved with the registration claw.

That's true for the H-16 cameras (over #100401), but the equivalent serial number for H-8 cameras begins at #97801. So, for 8mm, any Bolex H8 over S/N 97801 will have improved registration.

I agree, the H8 REX 4 is an excellent camera.

Mercyboy,
regarding the REX 4 and earlier 8mm H8 cameras. The REX 4 has a 1:1 drive shaft, in addition to the 8:1, so it allows for a wider range of motors. All H8 reflex cameras have (in addition to reflex viewing, of course) a variable shutter. In addition, all models can use the same cable release adapter which attaches to the side release. (The adapter is required for the release to work, so you may have to find one, but they go pretty cheap).