16 mm Camera recomendations

Post by **seba** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 5:23 pm

So I've been using Super8 for some time now and want to try 16mm but I really have a clue on what modells are good or not. So I'm posting here for any recomendations and/or experience you might have using 16mm.

I found one called the Krasnogorsk-3 that I recognized from the forums. Thought it was great with low price (on eBay) and cool design untill I read the following at http://www.k3camera.com:

Q: Can I shoot my breakthrough independant movie with the K-3?
A: No! The K-3 sounds like a sewing machine when running, and is too loud to shoot sound footage. Rent a sync-camera!

I sure would like to shoot my "breakthrough independant movie" with dialog.

Any feedback, links or anything else is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

YouTube · Post by **Andreas Wideroe** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 5:42 pm

Without knowing too much about 16mm cameras I'd say look for brands like: Bolex, Arriflex and Beaulieu.

/Andreas

Post by **studiocarter** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 5:44 pm

Auricons are cheaper and super quiet. CP16 are the children of them and much smaller.

Post by **David M. Leugers** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 6:48 pm

For economy you really can't beat an Auricon for inexpensive and reliable sync sound filming. It would be worth it to get one just for the sync sound takes and get yourself a trusty hammer for MOS filming (Bolex, Arriflex, Canon Scoopic, even the B+H 70 are all great cameras IMHO). The Auricons are on the heavy side but are the proverbial tank. My favorite is the Super 1200 because it has professional features. It has a rack-over for accurate focusing and framing, a big bright auto-parralax viewfinder, is the quietest 16mm camera you'll ever find for less than $1,000, and delivers rock steady scratch-free images. You can even put a 1200ft magazine on top for 33 minutes of filming bliss... I wouldn't be put off buying any 16mm camera just because it is not sound capable. Unless you are making a "Dinner with Andre" talking head movie, most scenes can be shot without lip sync sound. Good luck.

David M. Leugers

Post by **seba** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 7:13 pm

Thanks alot! I'll check them all out.

Are there any special "used camera" sites around where you can buy stuff?

Btw, does anyone know something about this camera
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... egory=4691

Post by **cineandy** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 7:46 pm

Hi,are you wanting a camera with auto exposure and a non interchangeable zoom lens, if so go for a canon scoopic 16ms,the camera i would recommend is an arri 16st-b (bayonet mount) with fixed speed 24 or 25 fps motor ( more reliable than vary speed motor ) then lenses, depending on your budget go for schneider primes in arri standard mount or zeiss distagons in bayonet mount,or a zeiss t3 10-100 zoom or angenieux 12-120 zoom,all lenses being manual, no auto exposure here.An idea of costs here in the uk, last year i purchased an arri 16st-b for Ã‚Â£350.00 plus Ã‚Â£150.00 for fixed speed motor,i then had the camera serviced at arri-gb for around Ã‚Â£550.00. I feel that if your shooting super 8 or 16mm
its worth getting a camera serviced,providing theres a service agent.Then on top of them costs youve got the power pack and lenses.I cant advise on bolex equipment,but also worth considering is a beaulieu R16 say with a 12-120 lens
and have it serviced.Here are a couple of sites,the bolex site i think advises you of the different H16s out there try
http://www.bolex.co.uk also take a look at this http://www.bblist.co.uk
by for now Andy

Post by **teadub** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 7:46 pm

Btw, does anyone know something about this camera
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... egory=4691

yeah, it's a rex 5. its a pretty good camera. You would have to get a sound synch motor to go with that. Although, I think those cameras are awkward. Especially with a 12 - 120 angenieux and a 400ft magazine. Handheld work is almost impossible. I also think they are a little loud. They newer ones EBM, EL etc... are quieter.

I would go with an eclair NPR, very quite and portable. An Arri S, even more compact, pin registered, but pretty loud (get a barney).

Post by **flatwood** » Tue Mar 25, 2003 7:49 pm

seba.... thats a real nice rig (the one on ebay). i shot for a video with a bolex in the late 80s and it played big on country music tv and the nashville network. i shoot wild cam (no sound sync) all the time and transfer to video and sync it by eye and ear. you'' love the bolex. someone also suggested auricon which i had a few years ago also solid and the scoopic 16 is a great choice too but this bolex rig has it all. i hope you get it.
-=rob in rural tennessee usa

Post by **Actor** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 2:16 am

Are there any special "used camera" sites around where you can buy stuff?

http://www.visualproducts.com
http://www.cameraspro.com

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 2:22 am

One thing that you may have to bear in mind in regards to choosing equipment is the final medium that your 'independant break through film' will be shown on. As you know, television has become more and more widescreen and increasingly, television material is shot on widescreen to fit.

I am not even sure if standard 16mm is used for TV anymore as a result. It seems to be superceded by super 16. I may be wrong about this though so you will need to do some investigating. I do know that not all 16mm cameras can be converted to super 16 successfully due to differences in camera design. I have heard that Bolex's can be converted quite easily. Though according to an expert, Beaulieu R16s supposedly cannot, because of the small size of the mirror shutter.

However, if you dont plan to have your film screened on television, then you probably will not have to worry about any of this. Then again, awhile ago there was someone on this forum who was shooting TV commercials with an R16. So I may be wrong about this.

Post by **Lucas Lightfeat** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 2:41 am

If you're planning to shoot your breakaway movie, 5 would highly recommend either of the following:

1. Arri 16 BL - a heavy camera, but the cheapest 16mm camera with the following important features - mirror reflex shutter, very quiet for sound, crystal sync. It's an Arri, so beautifully engineered, and the cheapest Arri you can get away with for serious use.

2. Eclair NPR or ACL - both great cameras, as above but lighter, Frencher and more pricey (especially the ACL, which is a peach).

If you want quiet (usable sound) which I suggest you probably do, avoid small handheld Canon Scoopics and Beaulieu R16s and Bolexs etc. - they're all OK, but very noisy.

Lucas

Post by **Nigel** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 2:43 am

I would stay away from any Reg16 camera. I just don't think that it is worth it anymore. Super16 is the way to go. I would go for the best camera you can afford. This is where my plug for Aaton comes in. If you are going to buy a Reg16 camera I would get the Arriflex S. It is a great little camera. I shoot a bunch of Super16 so if you have any questions please email me.

Good Luck

Post by **Lucas Lightfeat** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 2:53 am

Re. Nigel's post:

If you can't cope with Reg16, you'll pay a lot more for a Super16, in which case the Arri SR range or Aaton range are really professional cameras. The above Arri BL cannot be converted to Super easily (or economically) but the Eclairs are what eventually became Aaton and they are all easily Super16able and are often available pre-converted. They are also much much cheaper than Aatons. Check them out on Ebay.

Lucas

8th Man · Post by **8th Man** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 8:51 am

What kind of a budget are we talking about here? I suspect money is an issue here and most of us would love to shoot with an Aaton or Arri SRII if we could.
The russian K3 gets mentioned for requiring a lot of mods because they have a quality control and design flaw or two that some companies fix when they bring them over.
So how much were you hoping to spend?

Post by **mattias** » Wed Mar 26, 2003 1:34 pm

write the screenplay, apply for a "greenhouse" production grant at http://www.filmstockholm.se/ and use their arri sr for free along with any lights and grip equipment you need, including dollies and cranes. don't buy a camera for the purpose of making films. buy it to learn, experiment, document or whatever, but rent or borrow when it's time for your masterpiece. and if you need an experienced editor you know where to find me. :-)

/matt