learning 16mm

[wolf]

One of my mom's friends just told me that she has this old 16mm projector that she is willing to give to me for free if I want it, and of course i do. I have been shooting super 8 for a while and have always wanted to learn how to shoot 16mm. I should have looked at the model number of the projector today, but i am picking it up tomorrow anyway, it is a huge projector, it looks like a normal sized projector connected to this huge 3ft tall pedestal with big red reqind/stop/play etc. buttons on it.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone knows of any good guides on learning to shoot 16mm film. I am a student with not too much money, so i am gonna try to look for an okay, less expensive camera (if anyone has any recomendations i would really appreciate it) and some stock (also, if anyone has some recomendations). Oh yeah, labs also.

Basically, anything you can help me out with I would appreciate it.

[sk360]

I think the cheapest, well rounded, camera you can buy these days is the B&H Filmo. There's also the K-3, however I'm not to found of them as the one I had pretty much digested each and every spool I loaded in it! (although I know some people here have had success with them). However, I've heard some good things about the Kiev 16U being a pretty decent camera that you can find for a low price.

...and of course there's always the $2000 Arri SR I :oops:

[Evan Kubota]

It really depends on what you want to do... a good way to start without putting too much money into a camera is with a Bolex (non-reflex) or Filmo. I prefer the Bolex as the construction seems better and it has better focusing features and parallax adjustment on the side finder.

The Kiev 16U has reflex viewing, good-looking primes, variable frame rate, and a compact design for around $90... I have one but haven't had a chance to use it. The loading looks a little complex but seems to work fine. Cranking is also more comfortable/easier than a Filmo or K3 which have the flat key-type instead of a folding handle.

If you know that you'll get into the format, you might be better served by starting with something more advanced like a Scoopic or Kinor...

[sk360]

It's supposedly better to get a Scoopic M or MS series as the Grey Scoopic's have a lower quality lens. Or so people say...

[Patrick]

$2000 for an Arriflex SR1? Where have I been missing all these bargains?

[Actor]

The 16mm Camera Book by Douglas Underdahl.

I highly recommend it and suggest you read it before deciding on a camera. Amazon has it.

[Actor]

It's supposedly better to get a Scoopic M or MS series as the Grey Scoopic's have a lower quality lens. Or so people say...

I've never heard that the gray Scoopic's lens is of lesser quality than that of the M or MS. Whatever, it's still a good lens.

The only problem with the gray Scoopics is that they are older and may be more prone to mechanical problems because of that. Also, they do not take the 400 foot magazine.

I like my gray Scoopic. 8)

[mattias]

shooting 16mm is so expensive that i only use it for more serious projects where i have some kind of budget, like music videos, short films, extra interesting travel and nature footage, and so on. and since those moments are pretty rare, and you need to spend thousands of dollars on stock and processing, it leads me to a point i very often try to make here: rent your camera. that way you can get a much better camera, one that's guaranteed to work, and in the long run probably for less that you would spend on several cheap cameras and repair.

there are several reasons to own a 16mm camera though (i do). mainly because it's fun and it lets you shoot a few feet whenever you feel like it. so get one, but don't get the best one you can afford; get the cheapest one you can find. and don't use it for your "real" projects.

/matt

[jaxshooter]

It's supposedly better to get a Scoopic M or MS series as the Grey Scoopic's have a lower quality lens. Or so people say...

I like my gray Scoopic. 8)

I have a gray Scoopic too.I couldn't beat the price,it was given to me.Only thing I don't have is a battery or charger.I would love to find one,or something equivalent for a similar price as what I paid for the camera.

[David M. Leugers]

Wolf, is the projector by chance a B+H (or Federal or Devry) JAN? If so, congradulations on getting a great unit. The only trouble with these projectors is that the insulation foam becomes brittle and crumbles. International Cine Equipment Co. in Miami has parts for this projector and can do any level of repair and maintenance you might need.

If you do not want the pedestal, I would be interested in it.

I think you have gotten some good advice on cameras. If non-reflex and all manual cameras do not intimidate you, I'd get a B+H Filmo 70 (such as a DR or similiar with viewing objectives) or a Bolex. Both stout cameras that are very inexpensive to buy but can deliver the goods. They are great to have for the occasional urge to shoot 16mm. Once you do and project the film... it is hard to give up. 8)

David M. Leugers

[Evan Kubota]

I've never heard that the gray Scoopic's lens is of lesser quality than that of the M or MS. Whatever, it's still a good lens.

I have... many times. I've yet to use the Scoopic M for a comparison, but I will soon.

I agree with mattias that there are some good reasons to have a cheap 16mm camera. By 'cheap' I mean below $600. At the same time, even shooting small amounts of film with it over time costs quite a bit, so running 2000' of film through a $20 camera may not be the wisest thing to do. There's a nice convergence between quality and price that I feel is best served by black Scoopics and cheap Kinors. ;) If you can spend $850 or so there have been some nice Arri S packages on eBay, even with the 400' mag and the Angenieux 9.5-57mm (probably the best of the compatible zooms for the older Arris).

[audadvnc]

shooting 16mm is so expensive...it leads me to a point i very often try to make here: rent your camera...
there are several reasons to own a 16mm camera though (i do)....get the cheapest one you can find. and don't use it for your "real" projects.

You can find cheap 16mm cameras (Bolex, Filmo, K3 etc) but as Mattias points out, the stock and processing is going to eat up a lotta money if you go the normal (new stock/lab process/telecine) route. I buy old cameras and stock off eBay and process/transfer my own b&w negative to save costs. Usually the results are ok, sometimes useless, occasionally fabulous. The Used film and home processing route is not going to give you the top quality presentation that clients expect, but if you are just experimenting or home shooting for your own pleasure and edification it's perfectly appropriate, fun, and educational.

[sk360]

Hmm...I read on one form that the grey's lens wasn't very sharp and I did know a guy who owned one and said the same thing( in fact he never picked his up from the repair shop). Maybe the camera is not so bad after all...

Buy a Grey!

[Will2]

It's supposedly better to get a Scoopic M or MS series as the Grey Scoopic's have a lower quality lens. Or so people say...

I've never heard that the gray Scoopic's lens is of lesser quality than that of the M or MS. Whatever, it's still a good lens.

The only problem with the gray Scoopics is that they are older and may be more prone to mechanical problems because of that. Also, they do not take the 400 foot magazine.

I like my gray Scoopic. 8)

The Scoopic lenses are very sharp in their middle f-stop range... at the extremes they are noticbly soft. But they are GREAT for Super 8 users getting into 16mm since their autoexposure works well and they are amazingly easy to load. Plus, no winding and longer shots are possible.

I have a Super 16 K3 and a Kodak K-100 Turret; my Scoopic is the only camera I use now.

[Patrick]

With an early Arriflex model like a 16S or SB, is it possible to get adapters that allow 35mm still photography lenses to be mounted?