Those cursed camcorders!

[Patrick]

Just recently, I purchased a MiniDv camera for the sole purpose of using it as a tape deck for my up and coming telecine set up - in other words transferring super 8 footage from computer hard drive to MiniDv tape format. I plan not to use the camera as a 'camera' at all to minimise wear on the tape heads. At the time of purchasing, I thought the only special features of any significance for my intended application was the Firewire input and output.

However, reading through the instruction book this morning, I came across the following passage: 'The date / time is recorded onto the tape at all times.' Damn! Even though the manual also states that this display can be turned off during playback, I assume that this would only apply to my particular camera model. I notice the time code is also recorded as well. For all the MiniDv camcorder owners on this forum, I assume that if the recorded tape is inserted into another MiniDv camera and played back from that camera, the date / time and time code is going to appear on the screen? It is automated features like this that make consumer camcorders so frustrating to me.

[MovieStuff]

I would not worry about it too much. To my knowledge, all miniDV camcorders embed that type of information, which can be displayed or not at the click of a switch when being played back. Also, I have two miniDV camcorders that record no time/date info if used as a recorder and not a camera. But, again, this information is pretty common, I believe.

Roger

[flatwood]

Maybe its recorded in sub code. Try recording something and then playing it back into your computer via firewire and see???? What kind of cam is it?

[reflex]

However, reading through the instruction book this morning, I came across the following passage: 'The date / time is recorded onto the tape at all times.'

You misunderstand what the instructions are trying to say. miniDV has a very simple digital timecode system that is designed to help digital editing packages and provides feedback to the user while fastforwarding/rewinding/playing.

The timecode is NOT part of the image - it is included in the digital information stored with each frame. You can choose to display it or hide it as you wish while playing your video.

[Evan Kubota]

Yeah, but also be aware that it can be permanently recorded on the image with some cameras. If yours is set up that way, you won't be able to remove it later. Check the documentation for more details.

[Patrick]

"...all miniDV camcorders embed that type of information, which can be displayed or not at the click of a switch when being played back."

I was under the impression that different brands of minidv camcorders incorporated different technologies that may not recognise some functions or settings imposed by other brands' cameras. Though I guess I could try and find someone who owns a different brand of minidv camera and do a test with a tape recorded in mine. Though I believe there are some DVCam cameras that can accept minidv tapes. Would those DVCam cameras and minidv playback machines have the option to hide the time/date as well?

"What kind of cam is it?"

A JVC GR-D290

"You can choose to display it or hide it as you wish while playing your video."

Correct. I just hope that's the case when the tape is played back in other cameras and playback machines.

[Patrick]

"...be aware that it can be permanently recorded on the image with some cameras."

That is exactly my worry. When the manual indicates that 'the date / time is recorded onto the tape at all times' then I assume it becomes a permanent part of the recording. Though as Roger has suggested, hopefully all other minidv camcorders in which the tape will be inserted will be able to make this information disappear with the flick of a switch. Before I purchased this camera, I merely assumed there would be an option to turn off the date / time information before recording.

[BigBeaner]

Ya most cameras record time date, timecode, f stop, gain etc. and usually don't display all this information unless your click a button. Have you tried to just record with the camera and play it back, on tv and captured using your computer just to see? That's the easiest way.

[BK]

"
I was under the impression that different brands of minidv camcorders incorporated different technologies that may not recognise some functions or settings imposed by other brands' cameras. Though I guess I could try and find someone who owns a different brand of minidv camera and do a test with a tape recorded in mine.

The minidv standard should be the same with diffrerent makes of cameras, so you shouldn't worry too much about it. I have tapes recorded with a JVC and it's fine with playing back with a Sony camcorder and I was able to switch off the date data.

One interesting thing about the Sony dv camcorders is it'll also record camera information such as f stop, white balance, gain in the subcode, and this information is retained when you dub from firewire to firewire.

Bill

[Patrick]

"I have tapes recorded with a JVC and it's fine with playing back with a Sony camcorder and I was able to switch off the date data."

Ah that is exactly the type of confirmation I was looking for. Thanks!

[Stevedix]

"
I was under the impression that different brands of minidv camcorders incorporated different technologies that may not recognise some functions or settings imposed by other brands' cameras.

MiniDV is a standard, which like DVD and CD, has to be certified by the owners of the standard. If you don't come up to the standard, you can't sell your product under that banner. This explains it :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DV

It's the same reason that a lot of copy-protected CDs weren't allowed to put the CD logo on the packaging.

[Patrick]

I'm not referring to the standard. I'm referring to the individual designs of different manufacturers' MiniDv cameras. For example, if a component in a Sony MiniDv camera is worn or damaged, you can't expect to obtain spare parts from a JVC MiniDv camera!

[Patrick]

Ive heard from a few people on this forum that using a minidv camera as a tape deck puts a lot more demand on the tape heads than using it as a camera. I would have thought the opposite. Obviously, if you were using it as a camera for general recording, you would constantly be recording then stopping, recording then stopping, recording then stopping etc. Not only that but you would likely be fast-forwarding and rewinding back and forth, searching for particular segments on the tape to play back to friends and family.

Using a minidv camera as a tape deck, I would think, would just involve recording from the beginning of the tape right through to the end with no stopping and starting. Then rewinding the tape. And then to check if the recording went satisfactorily, playing the tape from beginning to the end of the recording and then rewinding back to the beginning. I assume this sort of practise would only place significant demand on the tape heads if you were doing a very high volume of work - ie lots of tapes.

[Evan Kubota]

Using it as a tape deck (in VTR mode) probably puts more wear on the heads than simply recording. If you never rewind, the wear is minimized. That said, unless you transfer several hundred hours of footage you will likely not have any problems in the camera's lifespan.

[Patrick]

Using the camera in VTR mode is more demanding on the tape heads? Thanks for the info. If only there was a way to minimise rewinding.

Ive heard according to someone on another forum that most 'drop outs' and other defects occur in the first minute of recording on a minidv tape. So his recommendation is to record less important subject matter for the first minute. Has anyone else found this to be true?