Bolex H8, please help

Post by **tod8** » Sun Mar 09, 2003 8:54 pm

Hello,

I've been filming standard 8MM for a couple of years. I have a Bolex P1, P2 & P4. They have been great.
Recently I got an H8 reflex with prime lenses and also a zoom lens. It is almost unused and it is one of the later models.
The only problem is, when looking through the viewfinder, the image is not as bright as I am used to. I'm sure the optics are clean on my model. When I look outside my window with my P2 for example, I see a beautiful bright image in the viewfinder. Looking at the same scene with my Bolex using the standard prime lens, I get a grainy, darker image, even when I open the diaphragm up all the way. I know the grainyness is supposed to be there, but I must say it will be difficult to film like this. Its very dark. I believe the lack of light has to do with the reflex viewfinder.
Do I just have to "get used to it"?
Anyone with advice/experience would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,

Regards,

Tod
(new member-hello everyone)

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Mar 09, 2003 9:09 pm

Yep, the P cameras are much brighter, however, they don't hold 100 feet of film either, so, you loose some and win some. Preset lenses on the rex allow the diaphram to open all the way for focusing and framing, then shut it down to the desired 'preset' stop for shooting. At that point it really IS dark in there. It is a good time to close the viewfinder and use the side finder instead.
H8rex cameras loose about 20% of the light that enters the lens. The real shutter speed at 24 fps is 1/64 sec but because of the light loss 1/80 is adapted to use. Single frame is 1/40 instead of 1/30.
The film perf guy told me to use the hand crank to advance the film at night. Shots will show smeary headlight lines if you crank at about one turn for each two seconds with the 10asa film. That I gotta try.
I've been trying to get used to my H8rex, but tomorrow I'm gonna load up the P2 just to use THAT light meter instead of the 715.
I'd really like to have that spot meter on the L508Cine. What light meter are you using with the H8rex?
Michael

Post by **tod8** » Sun Mar 09, 2003 11:11 pm

thanks for the info.
unfortunately i dont have the side finder. is that brighter?

regarding hand cranking the film forward. how do you do this? i assume you need to set it to "T" for time lapse exposure to keep the shutter open, right? but how do you crank the film forward? with the regular wind up knob or the rewind knob cranking backwards?

im using a hand held Sekonic light meter.

tod

Post by **David M. Leugers** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:14 am

Tod8

Congradulations for shooting R-8mm film and owning the marvelous H-8Rex Bolex. The viewfinder image is very dim, you do kinda get used to it. Filming outdoors on a bright day is no problem. The H-8 cameras produce the finest R-8mm images IMHO. Not only do they have a superb gate and pressure pad, but they have incredible registration due to the extremely accurate claw and the unusual (for 8mm) upper and lower film drive sprockets. The lenses for the Rex model are amoung the finest ever made. I like all Bolex R-8mm cameras, but for important shots give me the H-8Rex anyday. Most people prefer the reflex version, but I also own the standard non-reflex H-8 and I always find joy in shooting with the side finder when I have time to properly set up the shot. The Rex is great for filming on the fly... as long as you have enough light. Good luck and keep shooting.

David M. Leugers

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 12:06 pm

My H8rex has a flat bottom. The instruction book I have is for a H8rex with the round bottom. Therefore, another thingie which is next to the variable shutter and the filmplane mark is not listed in the booklet. It looks like a shaft for a motor. It looks just like the hand crank shaft next to it only it is smooth, has a red dot in the near center of the inner shaft, has a smooth outer part with the two side holes in it, and it does not turn, it has no pins inside to engage with the crank.
Anybody know what it is?

"The mechanism of the H8 RX camera can operate in either forward or reverse by means of a small auxiliary rewind crank that fits over the cranking shaft....Disengage the motor --> O. Set the side release on position M (selfilming), then crank in either direction. It didn't say to use T or I, but T should be set. On another page it says to use the T position in poor light.
I tried it and it cranks in both directions.

The side finder is clear glass, very bright, but not as large an image as in a P series camera. They sell on e-bay.

New topic. THe cranks. H8rex crank has a large inner diameter. My crank for the P series camera has no hole inside it, only the pins sticking out.
I have another crank that has a small diameter hole in it; it doea not fit either camera. Perhaps it is from the H8 camera and I brought it along by mistake?

Post by **filmbuff** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 2:07 pm

My H8rex has a flat bottom. The instruction book I have is for a H8rex with the round bottom. Therefore, another thingie which is next to the variable shutter and the filmplane mark is not listed in the booklet. It looks like a shaft for a motor. It looks just like the hand crank shaft next to it only it is smooth, has a red dot in the near center of the inner shaft, has a smooth outer part with the two side holes in it, and it does not turn, it has no pins inside to engage with the crank.
Anybody know what it is?

I think you are reffering to the 1 to 1 motor shaft. It allows attachment of a crystal motor or animation motor.

BTW they only ever made one manual for the H8 REX cameras. The same orange covered manual was always delivered but with a supplement to cover the changes for the REX3 and then with a second supplement for the REX4. I scanned the whole manual with both supplements for this site long ago and they are available for download.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 4:07 pm

Thanks, Filmbuff,

Those suppliments have been added to my own FrontPage version, long since found in 'manuals', H8.1.zip, although, it has not been uploaded yet again in the revised version.

Are there any specifics as to which motor and power unit to use for sound sync?

Post by **Herb Montes** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:38 pm

I own several Bolexes including an H-8 and a Double Super8 converted H-8. I can answer some of your questions. There are two variety of handcraks for the "H" series of Bolex. One has the 3mm hole for the earlier models and another has the 4mm hole for the newer models with the single-frame shaft. Some of the Rex models have a small knob in place of the lever for the "I-T" shutter control.

Besides Bolex brand motors there are several companies that make sync and animation motors for the Bolex. If I can find the URLs I will post them here. Chambless in Atlanta services and sells accessories for the Bolex.

The one accessory I see missing on a lot of Bolexes is the side finder because they are so easily detached.

I love the Bolex because it is the best all around camera for making good films. Since I am an animator I prefer using one for shooting animation over a Cine Special even though I already have two of those.

-Herb

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 9:23 pm

Thanks Herb,
Nice moustachio!
My H8rex has the knob instead of the lever.
That other smaller diameter hole crank must be from another H8 I have and didn't bring. That gave me an idea, and I tried the smaller one on the H16 and it fit. The supplied H16 crank has a longer handle, although, the shorter one works, too.
Often there are Bolex motors for sale on e-bay, usually without power sources. Are the motors sync? That is, do they run at a precise and constant rate?
I never buy them because I just don't know enough about them. :oops:
Tobin or J&K make new motors for an arm and a leg :evil:

Post by **Herb Montes** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 9:33 pm

The most commonly available motor for the Bolex is a variable speed one. They don't maintain a constant enough speed for sync work though. Crystal sync motors are more expensive because of the electronics involved. If you have the single frame shaft on your camera you might be able to sync it with a recorder. I know of someone who has a Super8Sound fullcoat mag recorder which can be made to sync with a PC socket on a Super 8 camera. It might be possible to make an adapter to use the single frame shaft. A Super8Sound recorder with fullcoat and a Double Super 8mm H-8 would make a good setup though you would need to blimp the camera. Would still need a constant speed electric motor.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 9:43 pm

The single frame shaft for the motor does indeed turn around when the camera runs. How that dould be made to work, I don't know. There are no pins sticking out to engage the crank and the outer part is smooth, with the two holes.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 9:47 pm

The shaft has a tiny hole drilled through it, the shaft spins, it stopes in line with the outer holes. I was able to stick a pin clear through it and out the other side.

Post by **Herb Montes** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 9:51 pm

There are supposedly two drive shafts on some Rexes, one 8-frame and one single frame. The 8-frame shaft is the one on the upper left. Though my H-8 Rex only has the 8-frame shaft. It's probably an earlier model. The shaft is in the center of the outer ring which has the holes. There should be a pin going through the shaft for the crank to engage. Unless it was removed, don't know why someone would do that. I'm not sure which shaft the sync motors use but my guess is the single frame.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 10:03 pm

It sounds like the pin has been removed from the one frame shaft. Should be simple to fix if the motor were ordered. Mostlikely need to send the cam to them for installation. http://www.tobincinemasystems.com/page148.html http://www.tobincinemasystems.com/page10.html

It's fun to read about anyway. I was advised against it. Get a self blimped camera like a CP16 they said.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 10:15 pm

There's no fun in doing it the easy way.

Part of the excitement of filmmaking is doing thing differently and in a new way. Or using the old ways. My first 16mm movie was shot using a handcranked movie camera I had fixed up myself.

If you are determined to make sync sound movies with your H-8 then go for it. You might change some minds about 8mm if you succeed.