If Kodak are committed to keeping super 8 alive (according to some sources) despite the small size of the market, it makes you wonder why they don't do any advertising for this product. I am actually wondering if they do recommence advertising of super 8 film products (something they probably haven't done since the early 80s) - will this attract many more users to the format?
Even though super 8s' use is widespread all around the world and there are heaps of websites dedicated to the format etc, it still is a tiny market compared to the video users. Everyone here has to admit that. The fact is - the majority of poeple who live on this planet do not use super 8! The problem with the lack of advertising is that most people are not really aware of the format's presence. Usually when people discover that I'm shooting on super 8 in my daily adventures, they are amazed and sometimes shocked that super 8 is still in use. Everybody's usual question when asking about super 8 is if the film is still being made today? That is exactly the sort of thing that is happening due to the lack of advertsing. By not advertising super 8, the general populace is being kept in the dark about this format.
As everybody knows, in recent years there has been a resurgence in the use of super 8 and film sales have increased though it still is a tiny market overall. If super 8 is advertised again, I wonder if that could increase the size of the market even more.
Could anyone have any creative ideas as to what could go into a super 8 advertisement if one was made today either on paper (magazine format) or television. Though I wonder which line one would take in the representation of the format in an advertisement of super 8 in this modern world. Would portraying super 8 as something associated with nostalgia work or would the image of a more semi-professional format that could be blended with digital technology be more effective? Or possibly there could be advertisements for both targeted towars different types of people? Either way, I reckon super 8 time lapse footage would looked great on a TV ad. An offscreen voice says to the family watcthing the screen during commercial break:'This could be your footage. Forget video!'
I believe that Kodak probably advertise all of their other products...so why not super 8 as well? Although one disadvantage could come if super 8 were to be advertised again and the general populous took notice. You could say goodbye to alot of those super cheap cameras and projectors in markets and good will stores. As soon as the wider community views super 8 as a viable and serious format again, the value of used equipment will go up.
Super 8 advertising in today's world?
Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
the problem with advertising is that it costs awful lot of money. So it is only done if you can expect a reasonable return of investment.. the s8 market is tiny, the potential growth is also tiny. Who is going to use it? People like us in this forum. And you have to admit, that that's a quite specialized bunch of folks 
The average person who wants to keep records of his life, friends and family will use video, and will embrace dv because that's what that medium is perfect for.
I'm happy that kodak supports s8, especially k40. Let's not be ungrateful, that's something very special in the corporate world! Any other company would have pulled the plug long time ago.
The average person who wants to keep records of his life, friends and family will use video, and will embrace dv because that's what that medium is perfect for.
I'm happy that kodak supports s8, especially k40. Let's not be ungrateful, that's something very special in the corporate world! Any other company would have pulled the plug long time ago.
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Lucas Lightfeat
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I am inclined to suggest that one reason that Super8 has endured its dedicated following is because it is an eccentric, elitist, leftfield format which distinguishes us from the hoi poloi (videographers). I believe that this is true of both holiday-snappers and film-makers.
Of course we know and celebrate the intrinsic quality of the film medium, and we "enjoy" (or at least endure) overcoming the varrious obstacles involved in the format as compared to the far easier video format. Why? Because we are aestheticly refined people? Because we just love the analogue old stuff because it is so physical, hands on, mechanical, as opposed to "data"? Because we want our film-making experience to be a journey of discovery and exploration, not a package holiday? Because we want to express our individuality from the masses? Or is it just..."Because we love film!"? Whatever the answer, you have to admit that what we do is the movie-making equivelant of driving a 1967 Jaguar E-type - nobody's going to deny that the car's sexy, but why would you drive a V12, 5 litre monster to work every day? It breaks down, it uses gas like a helicopter and you can't get the incredibly expensive parts anymore. We are all driving our classic jags to work every day!
You cannot adequately advertise the format on TV - I would suggest advertising Kodak Super8 at the Cinema, wherever Kodak film is used - now that would be cool!
Reintroducing the Kodak Super8 format...they could get Stephen Speilberg, Oliver Stone, Quentin Tarrentino etc to introduce the advert - They might get some top name directors to do it. This would be way cool. I am dreaming, of course, because Kodak couldn't give a $%^& about S8 really, and I suggest it would only happen if Kodak came out with an entirely new small format, like Super8 but better - Hi8 perhaps, or has that been done already? ;)
Lucas
Of course we know and celebrate the intrinsic quality of the film medium, and we "enjoy" (or at least endure) overcoming the varrious obstacles involved in the format as compared to the far easier video format. Why? Because we are aestheticly refined people? Because we just love the analogue old stuff because it is so physical, hands on, mechanical, as opposed to "data"? Because we want our film-making experience to be a journey of discovery and exploration, not a package holiday? Because we want to express our individuality from the masses? Or is it just..."Because we love film!"? Whatever the answer, you have to admit that what we do is the movie-making equivelant of driving a 1967 Jaguar E-type - nobody's going to deny that the car's sexy, but why would you drive a V12, 5 litre monster to work every day? It breaks down, it uses gas like a helicopter and you can't get the incredibly expensive parts anymore. We are all driving our classic jags to work every day!
You cannot adequately advertise the format on TV - I would suggest advertising Kodak Super8 at the Cinema, wherever Kodak film is used - now that would be cool!
Reintroducing the Kodak Super8 format...they could get Stephen Speilberg, Oliver Stone, Quentin Tarrentino etc to introduce the advert - They might get some top name directors to do it. This would be way cool. I am dreaming, of course, because Kodak couldn't give a $%^& about S8 really, and I suggest it would only happen if Kodak came out with an entirely new small format, like Super8 but better - Hi8 perhaps, or has that been done already? ;)
Lucas
Kodak manufacture many, many products that they do not advertise, they're one of the few companies still doing sheet film and glass plates. The enthusiasts know the stuff is there.
However I have found the following:
a) Many people assume S8 (and R8) is dead and that the film is impossible to obtain.
b) Several people on seeing me with a S8 camera ask me where to get film because they "might just dust off the old camera"...if even 1 in 10 does this it will help.
c) Young kids (I work at a school) think my S8 cameras are "cool" and even "sexy"...even those with state of the art DV equipment. I've been made serious offers for some of my equipment in the school playground.
d) Where S8 is on display in a shop it sells surprisingly well. I've asked camera shop owners and it is clear that those who put a few boxes of K40 on display sell healthy numbers, whereas those who say "yeah we can order that for you but we don't stock it" believe there is no demand.
My view is that the only viable advertising, since print/cinema/TV ads cost lots of money, is to encourage camera shops to display a few cartridges. Kodak might be persuaded provide display units (even just cardboard units) to display K40 S8 film alongsidee their slide products.
Sadly the only non-camera chain store here in the UK that was selling K40 in it's regular display of films (Boots, big pharmacy chain, had it's own brand of S8 equipment in the 70's and own brand film until 1989) seems to have ceased...odd since I did take the trouble to ask people at my local Boots and they said they were still selling quite a few.
Spread the word, my favourite online supplier of camera film recently started selling K40 and they have been *very* surprised at the numbers of films they are selling...they've had to restock at least three times.
However I have found the following:
a) Many people assume S8 (and R8) is dead and that the film is impossible to obtain.
b) Several people on seeing me with a S8 camera ask me where to get film because they "might just dust off the old camera"...if even 1 in 10 does this it will help.
c) Young kids (I work at a school) think my S8 cameras are "cool" and even "sexy"...even those with state of the art DV equipment. I've been made serious offers for some of my equipment in the school playground.
d) Where S8 is on display in a shop it sells surprisingly well. I've asked camera shop owners and it is clear that those who put a few boxes of K40 on display sell healthy numbers, whereas those who say "yeah we can order that for you but we don't stock it" believe there is no demand.
My view is that the only viable advertising, since print/cinema/TV ads cost lots of money, is to encourage camera shops to display a few cartridges. Kodak might be persuaded provide display units (even just cardboard units) to display K40 S8 film alongsidee their slide products.
Sadly the only non-camera chain store here in the UK that was selling K40 in it's regular display of films (Boots, big pharmacy chain, had it's own brand of S8 equipment in the 70's and own brand film until 1989) seems to have ceased...odd since I did take the trouble to ask people at my local Boots and they said they were still selling quite a few.
Spread the word, my favourite online supplier of camera film recently started selling K40 and they have been *very* surprised at the numbers of films they are selling...they've had to restock at least three times.
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Guest
seriously people. I'm gonna be honest and short. And this, of course, is only my personal opinion, but film is dying. Everybody knows this. Kodak knows this. Trying to prolong the life of super8 just doesn't make sense. Why would you. It's a fun format and there's still some use for it because it looks like home movies from the 70's. But it's not a professional format and it never will, no matter how good your footage is. And it's way too expensive and to much work for amateurs. It's a format for enthusiast and I'm fine with this. Why are you trying too make it something it's not and never will be. A lot of still photographers have switched to digital because it gives them just as good results as film and the same thing is going to happen to cinematography. Video will become a hype because it looks like old home movies from the 90's. It's very easy for me to see this because I'm not hung up on the format. I'm actually sick of super8 in travel shows and everywhere else, and I see no other use for it. It makes a lot more sense for kodak to get enthusiasts and amateur film makers to use 16mm and not video, but 16mm doesn't have too many years to live either. Just accept it. Or don't, and tell me to fuck off.
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Sonic Truth
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You notice how the negative message was left by someone that did not have the decency to lend their name to their message? Sounds like an outside detractor who does not even belong to this forum. Uh oh! Now they might have something to prove and use one of the tried and true names on this forum.
Marc
Marc
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Guest
It's absurd to say that film will die. It's obvious that it will keep on existing. The big proof is that since the 80's the number of people using super8 has decreased almost to nobody, and for the last 4 years the number is increasing every year. I've listened to people saying that the vynil would disapear after the CD, and now, me and many other people are buying vynil records. Film is alive and to stay as well has other formats. That is just obvious.
Best Regards,
Fernando, Spain
Best Regards,
Fernando, Spain
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Lucas Lightfeat
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Rich Music lovers, DJs and audiophiles the world over still buy old Ex-BBC Quad valve amplifiers, because they're the best, still buy vinyl because it is better than CD.
Film-makers of distinction the world over still use film because it is better, nicer, more aesthetically pleasing, still use nagra because it is better than DAT, still use actors because they're better than CGI.
Manufacturers still make valve amps, records, film, and nagras, and the drama schools are still pumpin' out those actors!
I'm not going to tell our guest to do one, because I think he's made some truthful remarks, none of which particularly upset me. Some points though:
Film is not dying, nor will it die, because it has an intrinsic quality loved (and I mean really LOVED!) the world over, so there will be enthusiasts for at least another 50 years.
Yes Super8 does look like 1970s home movies - ie so much better than 1980s, 90s home video footage - hence Super8's resurgence in the naughties. MiniDV isn't a professional format either - Super 8 is, as you say, a format for enthusiasts - we have something to be enthusiastic about!
A lot of photographers have switched to digital, but a lot haven't, despite it being cheaper to do so, because they are fanatical about film and they, like us, know why!!
You're not hung up on the format - fine! I'm not hung up on skateboarding, but it's pretty cool anyway.
I think 16mm has many many years to live, and yes, it does make more sense for Kodak to get enthusiasts to use 16mm in a way.
You just don't get it because you don't get it, because you'e one of those videoviles! Oh fu...!
Film-makers of distinction the world over still use film because it is better, nicer, more aesthetically pleasing, still use nagra because it is better than DAT, still use actors because they're better than CGI.
Manufacturers still make valve amps, records, film, and nagras, and the drama schools are still pumpin' out those actors!
I'm not going to tell our guest to do one, because I think he's made some truthful remarks, none of which particularly upset me. Some points though:
Film is not dying, nor will it die, because it has an intrinsic quality loved (and I mean really LOVED!) the world over, so there will be enthusiasts for at least another 50 years.
Yes Super8 does look like 1970s home movies - ie so much better than 1980s, 90s home video footage - hence Super8's resurgence in the naughties. MiniDV isn't a professional format either - Super 8 is, as you say, a format for enthusiasts - we have something to be enthusiastic about!
A lot of photographers have switched to digital, but a lot haven't, despite it being cheaper to do so, because they are fanatical about film and they, like us, know why!!
You're not hung up on the format - fine! I'm not hung up on skateboarding, but it's pretty cool anyway.
I think 16mm has many many years to live, and yes, it does make more sense for Kodak to get enthusiasts to use 16mm in a way.
You just don't get it because you don't get it, because you'e one of those videoviles! Oh fu...!
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Guest
The only chip to come close to film so far costs $1800, and is still pretty much an experimental product. The camera body lense and interface are extra, plus there is no mainstream software or storage media to allow the data aquired to be used at full resolution. I have a digital SLR. Hardly affordable for just anyone outside of a business expense (and damned expensive it is), and it is still not as good as film or as fast. It hasn't happened to film yet, and cinematography is a long way from being threatened by the digital camera. Storage Media and software isn't fast enough to capture full resolution images for cinematography. :roll: one more thing, F*** *FF.Anonymous wrote: A lot of still photographers have switched to digital because it gives them just as good results as film and the same thing is going to happen to cinematography.
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MovieMaker
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Super 8 - dying? Not really...
Dear fellow readers of this beautiful forum,
I guess the guest that wrote that bitter (or disillusioned) commentary on Super-8 is just another proof, of talking about a format he doesn´t know anything about. Fact is: If this small medium isn´t handled correctly it can be somehow unsatisfactory. But if handled right...
Three days ago the Austrian Broadcaster ORF showed a 50 minutes documentary on the experiences the winner of a show called "Starmania" had in Los Angeles, recording his first single with producer Peter Wolf. And guess what: Almost two third of the documentary was shot on Super 8! They used video just for the short interviews. And I think if Super-8 would still be able to record live sound they would have shot the documentary entirely on this format.
It gave the film such an interesting look though the makers used it a lot to shake the camera to give it that classic homemovie feeling (maybe someone has to tell them that it isn´t "arty" anymore). But when the camera has been held steady or panned across the skyline of Hollywood or the beach - WOW! What great colors, "warmth" of the pictures, field of depth, so much detail DV just can´t reach (though I have an Xl1 myself) - It just looked -film-tastic!
I don´t know what the guest was trying to say, but his comments are just hot air. Maybe he doesn´t even own a film or video camera. As long as we spread the word about Super-8 it will live for a long time. Especially when we are using it and tell others truthfully what they can get out of that format if used correctly...
I guess the guest that wrote that bitter (or disillusioned) commentary on Super-8 is just another proof, of talking about a format he doesn´t know anything about. Fact is: If this small medium isn´t handled correctly it can be somehow unsatisfactory. But if handled right...
Three days ago the Austrian Broadcaster ORF showed a 50 minutes documentary on the experiences the winner of a show called "Starmania" had in Los Angeles, recording his first single with producer Peter Wolf. And guess what: Almost two third of the documentary was shot on Super 8!
They used video just for the short interviews. And I think if Super-8 would still be able to record live sound they would have shot the documentary entirely on this format.It gave the film such an interesting look though the makers used it a lot to shake the camera to give it that classic homemovie feeling (maybe someone has to tell them that it isn´t "arty" anymore). But when the camera has been held steady or panned across the skyline of Hollywood or the beach - WOW! What great colors, "warmth" of the pictures, field of depth, so much detail DV just can´t reach (though I have an Xl1 myself) - It just looked -film-tastic!
I don´t know what the guest was trying to say, but his comments are just hot air. Maybe he doesn´t even own a film or video camera. As long as we spread the word about Super-8 it will live for a long time. Especially when we are using it and tell others truthfully what they can get out of that format if used correctly...
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Old Uncle Barry
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