Some time ago while surfing the net, I came across a website about underwater videography. Having a Eumig Nautica myself and having filmed some good footage while scuba diving, I decided to take a look. The site was well designed and informative. However, there was one section on the site that attempted to do a historical perspective about underwater film making. Amongst the author's text, there was mentioning of the fact that back in the 60s/70s poeple were shooting alot of underwater films on super 8. The author quotes... 'these wouldnt be very good.'
What a nerve! Im proud of my super 8 underwater footage. Ive put alot of work into them and I am more than pleased with the results...as have many fellow family members and impressed relatives. However, according to this guy, my footage is crap, without him even seeing a second of it. According to him, all of the other underwater super 8 footage that exists in the world (hundreds and thousands of feet of it) is crap too. what a hippocrit.
Underwater film making site insults super 8
Moderator: Andreas Wideroe
whats the url?
please provide the link to the site, I want to try underwaterfilming myself. Whether the folks like my equipment or not, does not really matter to me, but I'd like to ather some information about it.
What film did you use for your underwaterfilms? Can it be done with K40 and an eumig nautica, or do you need additional lights and highspeed film? I'm afraid that even on a sunny day, just 1m under water wll be to dim for k40.
What film did you use for your underwaterfilms? Can it be done with K40 and an eumig nautica, or do you need additional lights and highspeed film? I'm afraid that even on a sunny day, just 1m under water wll be to dim for k40.
Re: Underwater film making site insults super 8
That's worth simply ignoring the authors ignorance :roll: , or educating the author. What do the people think was used before video. I remember watching films back in the 60s/70s taken underwater with both black and white and color film. There's little to compare with modern underwater video. The contrast and color in those films was better than video. Wish I knew the titles of some of those films, would be worth a second look. I really enjoyed them.Patrick wrote:However, there was one section on the site that attempted to do a historical perspective about underwater film making. Amongst the author's text, there was mentioning of the fact that back in the 60s/70s poeple were shooting alot of underwater films on super 8. The author quotes... 'these wouldnt be very good.'
..don't know
most people don't know that s8 is still available, let alone used by someone. And, most people entering filmmaking these days actually have never seen s8 in their live, since when they grew up video had already taken over.
I don't really believe that avid videographers feel the need to attack s8. Unlike Mac vs PC, or Palm vs WinCE or Nokia vs the rest, there is no battle here. When they mention it, it's to recall how things were in the past, like telling about times when you had to start your car's engine by hand, or whatever nostalgia comes into mind.
Anyway, who cares about someone else's equipment preferences? As long as I enjoy s8, and I can get the carts at my local retailstore..
But, of course, it might be that some videographers are competing with someone who uses s8 - and the film was better? Or perceive people fiddling with 20+ years old stuff as snobs? plenty room for conspiracy theories here
I don't really believe that avid videographers feel the need to attack s8. Unlike Mac vs PC, or Palm vs WinCE or Nokia vs the rest, there is no battle here. When they mention it, it's to recall how things were in the past, like telling about times when you had to start your car's engine by hand, or whatever nostalgia comes into mind.
Anyway, who cares about someone else's equipment preferences? As long as I enjoy s8, and I can get the carts at my local retailstore..
But, of course, it might be that some videographers are competing with someone who uses s8 - and the film was better? Or perceive people fiddling with 20+ years old stuff as snobs?
plenty room for conspiracy theories here -
Old Uncle Barry
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:roll: Yes indeed people will ridicule S8,this is because they,without any help from outside,are seeing just how quickly their newly purchased mega-pixel whing-ding is going to become yesterdays news.Just like folks who have to keep up with the latest in computing.It just 'aint possible.
Any 9.5mm users out there wish to tell them the facts of life!!
Any 9.5mm users out there wish to tell them the facts of life!!
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Patrick
I agree. Its just plain ignorance by the author of the text. Just because the technology is old - he simply assumes that it must be inferior. But what about technique in film making? Mixing long shots with close ups etc., changing your shooting angle just as I do when filming, both above and under the water. How can this person think that all of this just goes out of the window when you're filming on super 8! Doesnt make sense to me.
Unfortunately, I did not grab the URL of the site but it was quite a while ago when I came across that particular site. You know what, I would like to e-mail him and tell him what I think of super 8 and his comments.
For those of you who are interested in underwater super 8 film making, you can get away with using K40 underwater. Beleive it or not, I have actually used K40 15-20 ft below the surface in natural light. Although this film is super slow, everything looked correctly exposed. The only thing though is obviously at that depth, the colours are bit weak because of the colour absorption.
I know that this is probably common knowledge but a very useful tip for underwater filming is to stay physically close to your subject in order to get clear, sharp images with good detail. As water is a thicker medium than air with lots of tiny little particles of various materials floating around, this foreshortening of visibility will make your subject a bit blurry and lacking in detail if filmed at a distance. So the closer you get, the sharper you're subject will be.
Great thing about the Eumig Nautica is that it has a macro feature. The magnification at this setting is not especially high but it does allow you to get full frame shots of starfish or largish crabs. Also, at that close camera-to-subject distance, you will get the clearest images possible. Of course for macro shots, you do not have to go scuba diving or snorkelling. Rock pools / tidal pools are a great source of macro subjects.
Most of the time, I use this camera at Kangaroo Island off South Australia. Although this underwater filming has been mainly for myself, Ive got some great footage over the last few years. I was thinking recently though, that I should put it to good use. Ive had the idea of editing it together (when I feel that I have accumulated enough usable footage) and screening it at the council chambers on the island which can be booked, charging admission. Like I said, I have got alot of good footage so far but not enough I feel for a reasonable duration film.
Most of the time, I use
Unfortunately, I did not grab the URL of the site but it was quite a while ago when I came across that particular site. You know what, I would like to e-mail him and tell him what I think of super 8 and his comments.
For those of you who are interested in underwater super 8 film making, you can get away with using K40 underwater. Beleive it or not, I have actually used K40 15-20 ft below the surface in natural light. Although this film is super slow, everything looked correctly exposed. The only thing though is obviously at that depth, the colours are bit weak because of the colour absorption.
I know that this is probably common knowledge but a very useful tip for underwater filming is to stay physically close to your subject in order to get clear, sharp images with good detail. As water is a thicker medium than air with lots of tiny little particles of various materials floating around, this foreshortening of visibility will make your subject a bit blurry and lacking in detail if filmed at a distance. So the closer you get, the sharper you're subject will be.
Great thing about the Eumig Nautica is that it has a macro feature. The magnification at this setting is not especially high but it does allow you to get full frame shots of starfish or largish crabs. Also, at that close camera-to-subject distance, you will get the clearest images possible. Of course for macro shots, you do not have to go scuba diving or snorkelling. Rock pools / tidal pools are a great source of macro subjects.
Most of the time, I use this camera at Kangaroo Island off South Australia. Although this underwater filming has been mainly for myself, Ive got some great footage over the last few years. I was thinking recently though, that I should put it to good use. Ive had the idea of editing it together (when I feel that I have accumulated enough usable footage) and screening it at the council chambers on the island which can be booked, charging admission. Like I said, I have got alot of good footage so far but not enough I feel for a reasonable duration film.
Most of the time, I use
thanks a lot for sharing your underwater experiences! I'm glad that k40 is fine for this, at least for me k40 is the most convenient and cheapest of all s8 filmstocks. I've been following the nauticas at ebay, and the prices are quite reasonable for such a special tool. And considering the fun it's a bargain!
it's a bargain!-
Angus
About 2 years ago British TV featured a programme about some amateur divers who had found some ruins on the sea bed somewhere in the 1970's...sorry I can't be more specific!
Anyway this featured about 3 minutes of footage these amateurs shot in the 70's on S8 Ektachrome 160 I would guess by the grain....still it actually looked better (proper rank scan, or even Spirit this being the BBC) than the video shot 25 years later!
Anyway this featured about 3 minutes of footage these amateurs shot in the 70's on S8 Ektachrome 160 I would guess by the grain....still it actually looked better (proper rank scan, or even Spirit this being the BBC) than the video shot 25 years later!
You have to make allowances for the video guys. After all, they spend all that money on kit that goes out of date while you watch it, and they still can't get the results.
To make matters worse, video recording is nearly as old as 8mm film - early low-definition TV was recorded on 78 rpm records 75 years ago - and it STILL hasn't caught up!
To make matters worse, video recording is nearly as old as 8mm film - early low-definition TV was recorded on 78 rpm records 75 years ago - and it STILL hasn't caught up!
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Lucas Lightfeat
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The Eumig Nautica looks pretty cool for the money.
These universal underwater video/Super8 housing cases at $200 look great too:
http://www.epiccam.com/
These universal underwater video/Super8 housing cases at $200 look great too:
http://www.epiccam.com/
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Patrick
Jean, Im glad that you're keen to try out underwater film making. It truly does add another dimension to your super 8 creativity...forget that....a whole 'nother world... for use of a better word.
Oh, and another thing about the Eumig Nauticas is that they have razor sharp lenses - extremely good optical quality. The cameras are quite durable too...Ive used mine in the snow. Make sure yours comes complete with the PMA wide angle adaptor - absolutely essential for underwater filming!
The only drawback with these cameras is that the exposure is almost completely automatic. You have no manual overide. The only form of compensation is the backlighting mode. Though then again, I must admit that I have rarely encountered bad exposures underwater as a result. The only thing to watch out for though is dark coloured subject matter like kelp.
Tim and Angus, it seems like alot of the time, these video guys have a superiority complex. From the way alot of them talk to me, they are just so blindly in love with the latest video technology that they view 30 year old small guage film technology as obsolete. They're living in their own precious little world, away from reality. Its about time someone should teach them about the real world.
Marketing and advertising are also to blame. With all the video equipment being promoted on TVs and magazines on a continual basis, bragging about how many hundreds of pixels they have etc, its no wonder that consumers think that these are the best things on earth. Of course nowadays, you dont see ads of super 8 film stocks displaying their beautiful colours and fine grain. Pity about that. That would be interesting to see - Kodak advertising Kodachrome super 8 film on TV and in magazines again in this present era - I wonder what sort of response theyd get.
Oh, and another thing about the Eumig Nauticas is that they have razor sharp lenses - extremely good optical quality. The cameras are quite durable too...Ive used mine in the snow. Make sure yours comes complete with the PMA wide angle adaptor - absolutely essential for underwater filming!
The only drawback with these cameras is that the exposure is almost completely automatic. You have no manual overide. The only form of compensation is the backlighting mode. Though then again, I must admit that I have rarely encountered bad exposures underwater as a result. The only thing to watch out for though is dark coloured subject matter like kelp.
Tim and Angus, it seems like alot of the time, these video guys have a superiority complex. From the way alot of them talk to me, they are just so blindly in love with the latest video technology that they view 30 year old small guage film technology as obsolete. They're living in their own precious little world, away from reality. Its about time someone should teach them about the real world.
Marketing and advertising are also to blame. With all the video equipment being promoted on TVs and magazines on a continual basis, bragging about how many hundreds of pixels they have etc, its no wonder that consumers think that these are the best things on earth. Of course nowadays, you dont see ads of super 8 film stocks displaying their beautiful colours and fine grain. Pity about that. That would be interesting to see - Kodak advertising Kodachrome super 8 film on TV and in magazines again in this present era - I wonder what sort of response theyd get.