telephoto lenses w/small S8 format, 4008ZMIV c-mount camera

[ericmartinjarvies]

hello fellow super8 filmmakers. hopefully some extremely-well-rounded-know-mostly-everything-about-this-kind-of-stuff-people will be able to shed some LIGHT on the telephoto question(s) i present hereinafter:<p>

aside from the standard issue zoom lenses that come stock with the beaulieu 4008ZM line, and the 150mm yvar, is there a telephoto lens that would give me 500+mm with extremely clear objective and lots of light? in other words, i would like to shoot some far and away shots (like lawrence of arabia, where omar is riding his camel some 5 kilometers away) that really reach out into the distance and pull those far away images in real close, while providing excel't image quality.<p>

does this type of c-mount lens exist? or, using another mount-type lens, what do i need to look for and pay attention to when selecting a 500+ tele-zoom? i need to purchase one this week, so any help would be greatly apreciated and EXPECTED from the resourceful folks that frequent this forum(jk).

[ericmartinjarvies]

has anyone every connected their S8 to a telescope, like the meade series? if so, tell me about it please.

[crimsonson]

Find a C Mount to any 35mm mount converter [Canon, Nikon, Leica, etc]. Since 35mm lens will have a 7x factor - you can use a 70mm lens.

[mattias]

Since 35mm lens will have a 7x factor - you can use a 70mm lens.

a 70 mm lens is a 70mm lens and he was asking for a 500mm one. i don't see your point. the length of a lens is the same no matter what format it's used on.

/matt

[MovieStuff]

Find a C Mount to any 35mm mount converter [Canon, Nikon, Leica, etc]. Since 35mm lens will have a 7x factor - you can use a 70mm lens.

Hmmm. The "normal" lens for 35mm is about 50mm. The "normal" lens for Super 8 is 12mm. 4x12=48mm, therefore, I would say that using a lens from a Canon or Nikon would be roughly a 4x factor and not 7x. If the look of a 500mm lens is required for super 8, then putting a 125mm Nikon lens on a super 8 camera would do the trick. Personally, I think the older screw mount Takumar lenses are sharper than the Nikon lenses but that's just personal preference, I suppose. My wife is Nikon all the way and (obviously) does not agree with my assessment. We're going to counciling.

Roger

[crimsonson]

a 70 mm lens is a 70mm lens and he was asking for a 500mm one. i don't see your point. the length of a lens is the same no matter what format it's used on.

/matt

You exactly know what I meant. Yes 50mm is a 50mm in any format - but for practical purposes, even if we go by Roger's equation - a 500mm from a 35mm format is 2000mm in S8. Try finding a tripod that will give you steady images on those...
And reading his posts- you will notice he wants maginification and made no refrence to matching field of view of 35mm.


Roger -
I disagree based on experience. At best 6x factor [maybe 5.5x]. Using a Leicina Special and couple of adapters - Nikon F, Canon FD and Contax/Yashica I found there was some slight variation, but overall a 6-7x factor as accurate.

[mattias]

sure, but he didn't ask for the equivalent of a 35mm 500mm lens, but for a 500mm lens. at least that's what he wrote and what his lawrence of arabia example suggested. it sounded like you were saying that a 70mm lens for a 35mm camera would work like a 500mm lens, which of course isn't true...

/matt

[filmbuff]

sure, but he didn't ask for the equivalent of a 35mm 500mm lens, but for a 500mm lens. at least that's what he wrote and what his lawrence of arabia example suggested. it sounded like you were saying that a 70mm lens for a 35mm camera would work like a 500mm lens, which of course isn't true...

/matt

And the fact the there is already a nice Schneider lens made for the Beaulieu which goes to 70mm. It offers the exact same 4X conversion, if you want to think in terms of a 35mm equivalent, that a 70mm lens from a 35mm camera would.

[eric@earthid.org]

i am familier with all the varios XXX to c-mount adapters that exist out there for fifteen or twenty bucks. and yes, their respective mount type lenses that fit onto/into them. but what i really want to know is what type alternative mount lens works best with 8mm? should i purchase a tele nikon, canon, arri, or what? and why? what is the differance between the yvar 150mm c-mount lens and a nikon(or canon, or arri, or whatever brand) 150mm nikon-mount lens? is the actual width of the internal optics differant? does the light enter the camera differantly? does the image enter the camera differant? or is the only differance between differant mount lenses the mount itself?<p> i must assume that the answer is yes because the actual size(real estate) of the film is larger for 35mm then it is for S8mm ... correct? if this is the case, then what happens to the image as it passes through a lens made for 35mm film through the shutter into an S8mm film? does the S8 film only expose the center portion of the 35mm-other-mount-type-lens? or does all the lens image make it into onto the S8mm film? aside from the XXX to c-mount thread conversion, do those converters actually convert the optic itself? or am i was off base here?<p>

now then, if you were able to make it through the above text, i have more newbee stuff to unload on you about using 16mm or 35mm type lenses on my S8 camera. i have noticed the switar preset lenses are popular(why?), especially the 10mm, 25/26mm, and 50mm. these are made for 16mm. what happens when i use these on S8? i guess this is just a more 'brand' specific question that i already asked in the above paragraphs. but please, clear the fog ... i can't take the ignorance for a moment longer<meek>.

[MovieStuff]

I disagree based on experience. At best 6x factor [maybe 5.5x]. Using a Leicina Special and couple of adapters - Nikon F, Canon FD and Contax/Yashica I found there was some slight variation, but overall a 6-7x factor as accurate.

I don't agree based on my own work with Fujica ZC1000 cameras and M42 adaptors that I've created that maintain the same back focus distance as the original 35mm camera would require. Of course, we are talking about what constitutes "normal" as a baseline for reference. In general, on a super 8 camera that would be about 12mm and on a Nikon or other 35mm still cameras, that would be about 50mm. By your reckoning, that 50mm lens would be the equivalent of a 350mm lens (7x50=350), which is not the result that I've encountered at all. For your equation to work, then the "normal" lens for a super 8 camera would have to be 7.14mm ( 7.14x7=49.98 ) -OR- the "normal" lens for a Nikon would have to be 84mm (7x12=84), neither of which is true. However, if you put a 50mm lens on the super 8 camera, it will provide pretty much the same field of view as a 200mm lens would on a Nikon (4x50=200), hence a factor of 4x.

Now, if you want to move the lens further away from the film plane with a different type of adaptor, then the factor will definately increase but you will have infinity/back focus issues that would have to be attenuated using additional optics to correct the problem. If using only hollow adaptors (with no secondary optics) that maintain the same back focus as a normal 35mm camera that the lens was intended for, then I don't see how you can justify a factor of 7x or even 5.5x. Maybe 4.16x but nothing really higher based on what I've seen.

Roger

[jessh]

should i purchase a tele nikon, canon, arri, or what?

I would suggest buying what ever you can find at a reasonable price. When it comes to 35mm SLR lenses everyone seems to think the ones for whatever type of camera they own are the best, besides that there seem to be few differences. That doesn't mean that there aren't any, but my suggestion is to get whatever you can get your hands on for a reasonable price, if you already have a 35mm SLR camera then you will probably want to go with whatever that is.

There are a few things to keep in mind though. Nikon tend's to be rather popular because there is a very wide variety of lenses available in the Nikon mount. When it comes to Canon, they switched lens mounts not long ago (from FD to EOS?) so their older lenses are incompatible with their newer cameras, this forunatly means that you can sometimes find FD lenses for really good prices. As far as long Pentax lenses go, I have heard that in general the longer(300mm+) Pentax lenses arent as high of quality as many of the ones available for Nikon and Canon, I don't know how true this is, My 300mm Pentax is good enough quality for my uses.

If you are looking for a lens only to use on your c-mount super8 camera, then the mount doesn't matter much as you can convert any slr lens mount to c-mount. In terms of long tele-photo lenses the 35mm SLR lens is most likely going to be the easiest and cheapest solution.

does the S8 film only expose the center portion of the 35mm-other-mount-type-lens?

yep, only the center part of the 35mm lens is used, which is luckily the sharpest part of it.

aside from the XXX to c-mount thread conversion, do those converters actually convert the optic itself? or am i was off base here?

when converting most mounts to use on a c-mount camera no optical conversion should be required, the only thing you really have to worry about is backfocus, which I hear isnt as much of a problem in telephoto.....

hope I was of some help

~Jess