Ikonoskop S16 camera latest -cont. "Ebayer Smoking Crac

[Lucas Lightfeat]

Originaly posted on the "Bell and Howell ebayer" who was clearly smoking crack, was news I heard on another forum about a cheap new Super16 camera being developed in Sweden:

http://www.ikonoskop.se/

Check this link out, and if your interested, read on...

>> From: Ikonoskop <info@ikonoskop.com>
>> Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 09:54:12 +0100
>> To: Lucas Adamson <lightfeat@btopenworld.com>
>> Subject: A-Cam
>>
>> Thanks for checking out the Ikonoskop website.
>>
>> Our eagerly awaited baby, A-Cam, is in the last phase of development and
>> fine tuning, and will available within a few months.
>>
>> Our, for the time being, quite modest website will soon grow into a full
>> sized, rather similar, and much better one.
>>
>> A-Cam advance orders can be placed within a couple of weeks.
>>
>> You will be informed.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Daniel Jonsater & Goran Olsson
>> Founders Ikonoskop
>>
>>>
>>
>

Den 03-02-06 02.03, skrev "Lucas Adamson" <lightfeat@btopenworld.com>:

> Hey guys,
>
> I for one am very excited. I am involved in an International Super8 website
> forum, and any info you give me will be passed on to literally hundreds of
> small format film-makers, many of whom have been waiting for just this kind
> of S16 camera and price. A few questions, which you needn't answer, but they
> are what I am wondering, because your site is so basic:
>
> Will it have mirror reflex shutter?
>
> Will it have a registration pin, or be like an Aaton?
>
> Is it going to be quiet?
>
> Will it be crystal sync at all speeds?
>
> Does it come with a basic matte box?
>
> Why a c mount lens, not PL or Arri bayonet?
>
> Can we see a bit more of it?
>
> Am I asking too many questions?
>
> Are you Swedish, as I was told?
>
> I think it's great what you're doing, and I think it could make you both
> very rich, and I hope it does, as the camera is just what the market needs,
> by the looks of things.
>
> Lucas Adamson
> Super8 film-maker
>


Dear Lucas,
Thanks for Your encouraging mail.
I´ll do my best on answering your questions:

Q: Will it have mirror reflex shutter?
A: No, A-Cam does not have a mirror reflex shutter. The viewfinder is
parallel- mounted, like on a Leica or a Mitchell. Since the standard lens is
so wide, the parallax error is minimal. However, an extension-kit for
PL-mount that also includes a video-assist and a reflex viewfinder will be
available.

Q: Will it have a registration pin, or be like an Aaton?
A: No registration pin, more like an Aaton.

Q: Is it going to be quiet?
A: It will not be totally silent. It will probably be a little bit louder
then the Aaton Minima.

Q: Will it be crystal sync at all speeds?
A: Yes, but I can´t give You any tolerances in numbers today.

Q: Does it come with a basic matte box?
A: Sorry, no matte box included. Will be available as an accessory.

Q: Why a c mount lens, not PL or Arri bayonet?
A: In order to make the smallest camera in the world, we wanted the shortest
back-focus distance (17,5 mm compared to 52 mm). Also, PL-lenses tend to
cost around 10 times more than c-mount lenses. If You like to use PL-lenses,
an extension kit will be available.

Q: Can we see a bit more of it?
A: Be patient, keep checking out the website.

Q: Am I asking too many questions?
A: No, on the contrary. A FAQ section of the website, to which You have just
contributed, will be up in a few days.

Q: Are you Swedish, as I was told?
A: Now, You're asking too many questions. He he he. Yes, we're Swedish.

By the way, how did You find us?

Best regards

-- Daniel Jonsäter
Ikonoskop AB
Virkesvägen 2A
S-120 30 Stockholm
Sweden
Tel +46 8 673 62 88
Fax +46 8 15 62 88
http://www.ikonoskop.com

[rhcvatni]

This is awsome! I can't wait to hear more from these guys.

[jessh]

Q: Will it have mirror reflex shutter?
A: No, A-Cam does not have a mirror reflex shutter. The viewfinder is
parallel- mounted, like on a Leica or a Mitchell. Since the standard lens is
so wide, the parallax error is minimal. However, an extension-kit for
PL-mount that also includes a video-assist and a reflex viewfinder will be
available.

I knew their had to be a catch :-) Unfortunatly I am spoiled and really want a camera with a reflex viewfinder. You have to wonder how they will do a reflex addon, it sounds like they will have a video-assist and viewfinder come out of the PL-mount adapter.... While I don't fully agree with not having reflex viewing, it still looks like it has lots of potential

Q: Does it come with a basic matte box?
A: Sorry, no matte box included. Will be available as an accessory.

figures, if they are going to try and sell the camera cheap then they need to make their money back somewhere. Much like how most camera stores have very little markup on cameras but sell even the simplest accesories for an arm and a leg.

~Jess

[MovieStuff]

Unfortunatly I am spoiled and really want a camera with a reflex viewfinder.

Hi, Jess!

Actually, I've actually shot with a Mitchell using a paralax finder and it's a dream. Bright, bright, bright. Most people have a memory of a really, teeny tiny paralax finder like the Bolex 16mm cams. But once you shoot with a really large paralax finder, it's really hard to go back to a mirrored shutter or a beam splitter finder. And paralax finders are really quite accurate unless the camera is really, really close. The best paralax finders have an automatic compensation for toe-in, meaning that the finder angles in the closer the camera is focused to keep the framing accurate. Also, if you are Ranking your footage, it is so easy to re-target the final image if the alignment is that critical. You do lose the use of a zoom but I hate zooms, personally. Much rather move the camera. Anyway, after my experience on the Mitchell, I was approached by a local film maker that was doing some low light documentary work in 16mm and wanted a paralax finder for his Eclair. We removed his TTL finder and used the mounting for my custom paralax finder. The toe-in wasn't automatic but there was an adjustable scale so that framing would be accurate. He could shoot under unbelievably low light and see perfectly. In an ideal world (and budget) I would make a camera with rangefinder focusing as well. Super easy to focus in low light.

Roger

[Guest]

I was initially excited by this announcement, but the more I think about it, the less interesting it seems. I mean, it's $3300. It has no through-the-lens viewing, and is limited to 100' loads.

So it's basically a quiet, crystal version of a B&H Filmo, whereas everyone nowadays needs & demands reflex viewing and longer film loads.

You could buy a CP16/A and get a quiet, crystal, c-mount camera with no viewfinder (roughly comparable to the A-Cam) for around $400-$500. And the CP will at least have the capability of using 400' loads, or 200', or 800', or even 1200' loads. The A-Cam can only use 100' daylight spools, which limits you to 2:46 of filming (not unlike a Super 8 cartridge). And spools are noisier than cores any day of the week.

I'm not saying it's a bad camera, it just seems surprisingly limited -- I mean, even the Krasnogorsk K-3 has TTL reflex viewing with a rotating mirror shutter, and it can be had for $150.

Lack of a light meter doesn't really bother me, but if it can be added, it should -- I mean, why not?

And Roger's comment about parallax viewers being clear is fine, but how do you focus? There ain't no autofocus c-mount lenses out there. Without TTL viewing you'll need something like a boresight (again, a Filmo reference) to be able to see through the lens to focus with. How do you rack focus? You can't. How do you track a moving object and keep it in focus? You can't. The lack of a reflex viewer is a showstopper, I think. Yes, you can use a tape measure, but only if your lenses are properly collimated, and if your 30-year-old c-mount lens' focus ring is accurate, etc. etc. etc. It's craziness. You HAVE to be able to see what you're shooting or you're dead in the water.

And with it being S16, not all c-mount lenses can cover the full frame. Switars can, but a lot of Angenieux and other lenses can't. How do you even know if you're exposing the full frame, if you can't see through the lens to know whether the frame is vignetting?

I've shot many feet of film through a Filmo, and while I think they're great for the price (under $50) I have no love of the parallax viewer and would never spend $3300 to get something that can't even look through the lens. If it doesn't offer reflex viewing, I'm afraid it's DOA, so whoever's in contact with them, you'd be doing them a favor to let them know that they will have an EXTREMELY difficult time selling it with no viewing system.

On the other hand, going with c-mount is actually not too bad of an idea. It means you will be able to use gazillions of lenses for very cheap. Even the prized 10mm Switar usually only costs $350 on ebay, whereas $350 would barely cover the SALES TAX on a PL lens. And 100' loads aren't a severe limitation, as S8 shooters can attest (100' 16mm being roughly equivalent to a 50' S8 cartridge). And it will make it lighter and smaller.

Put a reflex viewer on it and we'll talk. Without a viewing system it's DOA.

[Lucas Lightfeat]

I have to agree with the last post, paralax viewing is the single thing I really can't abide about this concept. It will stop me buying one, and getting a chunky old heap of heavy metal from the dark ages instead (another Arri BL probably) No, I'll stick with my Nizo until I can afford some kind of Aaton

My enthusiasm is fading fast for the a-cam

Lucas

[Carlos 8mm]

Yep, perhaps the Swedish A-Cam SP16 mm camera , It´s too simple and expensive, but really makes me feel good the fact that someone is interested in continuing making motion picture film cameras.

And perhaps the guys of Ikonoskop must think about to develop and to produce a S8 camera, more sophisticated than the A-Cam SP16.

Thus They could catch a market eager for equipments like the ours.

Carlos.

[Sonic Truth]

personally, this A-Cam looks like a dream come true, mainly beacuse im a student! At the cost of a decent DVCam you can get a super 16 film camera hooray! I think its very pleasing that a company wants to produce a cheaper camera in a world where anything involving film seems to cost
14 million pounds.
But, i will obviously wait until it is released to get properly excited about it, you know, until it gains a reputation. Is it going to use the same daylight loading spools as the A-minima?
Also how much does 100' roll of s16 film cost roughly? processing?
When i join art college in the summer i will be using 16mm film, and want to learn as much as i can before.
I'll still love my super 8 though!! even though my nizo is broken

byeeeeee, from me. 8O

[rhcvatni]

Well I think "Guest" persuaded me on this about the reflex viewfinder. I I didn't actually think that much about it, but I do now. You pretty much killed my excitement, but it's probably not a bad thing. I still can't wait to see though, how it's finally gonna turn out. The fact that it only takes 100 foot spools is a blessing to me. First of all it makes it smaller and lighter. i would never put that big and chunky 400" mag on a 16mm camera. If it's any bigger than the A-Minima I wouldn't buy it. Using only 100" spools also keep you from wasting that much film. If you're shooting thousands of feet of the same stock on the same day it's great, but that will "never" be my reality.

[Shamun]

Hey, if the a-cam is that small and light its a hit.
I want one, now!
How do I buy it?
Where could you find a decent lightmeter?

[Nick]

Like some of you guys I think it would be nice to have some more features but it does't bother me too much. If it has Crystal then i'll be happy. The reflex thing doesn't bother me as I have used a Leica before it was the best camera.

The fact that the camera is so small and compact is a plus in my book. I really like the size and and potential portability. I'm not terribly interested in carrying around a large pro Arri rig (which I can't afford anyway) to make some of my small films. I think if this thing gets developed i'm going to look into getting one.

Like rhcvatni points out the 100' foot spools keeps you from wasting film and I'm used to shooting only 50' cartridges anyway. I'm already trying to figure out how I can hook up my small Canon MiniDV the camera as a video tap.

cheers,
Nick

[Lucas Lightfeat]

On the subject of Paralax/Reflex, a reminder of what was said:

Q: Will it have mirror reflex shutter?
A: No, A-Cam does not have a mirror reflex shutter. The viewfinder is
parallel- mounted, like on a Leica or a Mitchell. Since the standard lens is
so wide, the parallax error is minimal. However, an extension-kit for
PL-mount that also includes a video-assist and a reflex viewfinder will be
available.

So for me, it depends on how much the extension kit costs. That and how noisy the thing is...

Lucas

[Guest]

Hey Guys,

Check out the update to the website. There is flip view to the camera and pictures of the guys who invented this thing. The FAQ is online also.

Nick being lazy and not signing in again.

[rhcvatni]

Hmm! I'm getting really sceptical about the parallax viewfinder. It's something I would try to stay clear of when buying old cameras. They say it makes the camera three cm shorter. I'd rather have those three centimeters than the parallax viewfinder. It looks cool, but it also looks kind of awkward to hold and operate. I'm thinking there should be a handle on top and some other type of grip. I can't really see how I would feel comfortable holding this thing.

I won't be the first person to buy one, but I'll be paying close attention the waht people will have to say about it when it comes out.

[Guest]

personally, this A-Cam looks like a dream come true, mainly beacuse im a student! At the cost of a decent DVCam you can get a super 16 film camera hooray!

If you want a c-mount Super16 film camera that takes 100' loads and uses a parallax viewfinder, I've got a loaded Filmo sitting in my closet, and I'll make you a deal-- I'll charge 1/3 of what the A-cam is. $1000, includes optional 400' magazine, AC/DC motor, and carrying case.

Is it going to use the same daylight loading spools as the A-minima?

No. The A-minima uses a unique daylight spool system, and that system is only used by the A-minima. The A-cam uses the much-more-common standard 100' daylight spools.

Also how much does 100' roll of s16 film cost roughly? processing?

At rack rate, 100' rolls are about $35, and processing is about $20, for a grand total of about $20 per minute. But you can get short ends and cheap processing that brings the total cost down to more like $13 per minute.