Casting shorts with no dialogue?

[Evan Kubota]

My two most recent projects haven't involved dialogue, and neither will my current project. This brings to mind an interesting question - how do you cast actors if they can't give readings? I suppose I could have them give readings from an unrelated piece and then cast, but it would seem kind of stupid. I also considered having them do some kind of physical acting, but again, it seemed strange. I just used actors I already knew for the last two projects, since I knew their styles and thought they would be good in the roles. Any suggestions for casting shorts without dialogue?

[mattias]

very good question. you can still have them read something. it doesn't matter what it is. what you're looking for is someone who's 1 the right type and 2 one who will respond to your direction. this goes beyond dialogue.

/matt

[Evan Kubota]

That's basically what I did on the last two projects - used actors who I know took direction well and were the right type. I guess for an audition process I could just meet the actor and get a feel for their ability/style from that. It still seems strange to have them read when there would be no dialogue in the actual film - it would be interesting to read about how they cast in the silent era. I remember reading that when sound became popular, many of the silent actors were out of work because their voices didn't correspond with the image they cultivated onscreen in the silent work.

[berk]

I am also in the process of casting for a non dialogue film also. I get a room in a local arts or community center and meet with the actors - I include my one ( and only ) crew person. We talk about the movie and the actors background and then after that I decide based on "gut" feeling. My biggest criteria is trying to find someone that I can work with professionally. I think it probably feels more like a job interview than an audition for the actors.

Deniz Berkin
http://www.awakeatdawn.com

[mattias]

It still seems strange to have them read when there would be no dialogue in the actual film

why? you'll still see whether they can act or not. doesn't it feel strange to interview them too if there's no interview in the actual film? ;-)

/matt

[Scotness]

I'd get them to improvise or act through (ie with direction) a certain scene or two from the film (or similar to the film) so you could see what they were like in the role and acting style you are intending them for.

Scot

[steve hyde]

I love shorts without dialogue. It forces the director to communicate more cinematically through sight and sound. On of my favorite films is Carl Dryer's "The Passion of Joan of Arc" (check out the restored Criterion Collections release - it is stunning.)

A couple thoughts come to mind here. Is your film character driven?
If yes - I think you have a lot of casting work to do even if you aren't using dialogue to show your story. I referenced the "Passion of Joan of Arc" because it is a remarkable work of both cinematography and acting without the use of dialogue (or sound for that matter)

The language is all in the eyes. The movement of the eyes - the emotion in the eyes. I think you need to do the same thing that photographers need to do when they are shooting fashion stuff. You need to get the actors to bring out the mood of your film through body movements and other subtleties. What is that old cliche? Language is only ten percent verbal.... not sure that I understand the way that is measured, but I think the point is worth considering and I think it is more or less true.. That is why I'm into cinema.

So what I'm suggesting - my humble opinion is - that you should really challenge yourself to challenge your actors to speak without speaking..
That is all I can offer since I am a student filmmaker myself..

Good luck,

Steve

[Evan Kubota]

No, this is probably not a character-driven piece. The actor will be stationary in the seat of a space capsule for 95% of the running time, wearing a bulky Soviet high altitude helmet. Of course, the body language and expression on the exposed portion of the face will be critical. I plan on doing auditions, but I'm not going to look at fifty different actors.

I haven't seen Dreyer's "Joan of Arc" but I've seen several other silent films (Nosferatu, Potemkin..) and some of Polanski's excellent silent shorts, as well as three or four by Kieslowski.

I've done several shorts with dialogue, but most were kung fu parodies, so everything was dubbed later.

There actually will be some dialogue in this film, but in the form of news broadcasts or synthesized speech.

[steve hyde]

The space ship movie sounds cool. I love the Passion of Joan of Arc because it reminds me that eyes are the window into the soul. This is a central principle of photography....One that is often forgotten...

Steve

[npcoombs]

Silent films done well, can express more than any amount of dialogue. This is why I support Gus Van Sant's latest forays into this field, even if I don't always feels he embeds the meaning in his shots that he intends to be read from them.

[Alex_W]

steve hyde, you would probably know, but deleuze has written some interesting things about The passion, about how it's a movie that's mostly made of affection-images.

I also like the ideas of silent movies, and i get excited when i hear directors talk about the cinematic potential in D.W. Griffiths work that still hasn't been fully understood.

[steve hyde]

Nathan,

Which Van Sant films are you referring to? Elephant? I haven't seen the Kurt Cobain thing....

Alex,

I haven't seen the Deleuze piece on Passion of Joan of Arc. This sounds interesting. Where might I find a copy of that..

Steve

[npcoombs]

Nathan,

Which Van Sant films are you referring to? Elephant? I haven't seen the Kurt Cobain thing....

yes I was thinking of the tarr influenced trilogy: gerry, elephant and last days. Although not strictly silent the dialogue operates in much the same way as it does in kubrick's best films, as meaningless intermittant background noise

[Alex_W]

Well, Deleuze discusses the work of Dreyer and i think The passion... in particular in his Cinema books. Cinema 1 deals with the movement image, which is related but not synonomous with pre-wwII cinema. His cinema works are not historical but give a typology of signs, based for the most part on Peircian semiotics, with which to analyse a movie. with regard to the Passion... he notes that it's one of the first films to use the affection-image (close-up), a sign which will triggers a direct emotional disposition, to a large extent.
Cinema 2 is about the time-image which is related but again not synonomous with post-war cinema, especially from the italian neo-realist movement on. Both books are readily available in english translation, but are really hermetic and difficult. I don't understand half of it.

[steve hyde]

Well, Deleuze discusses the work of Dreyer and i think The passion... in particular in his Cinema books. Cinema 1 deals with the movement image, which is related but not synonomous with pre-wwII cinema. His cinema works are not historical but give a typology of signs, based for the most part on Peircian semiotics, with which to analyse a movie. with regard to the Passion... he notes that it's one of the first films to use the affection-image (close-up), a sign which will triggers a direct emotional disposition, to a large extent.
Cinema 2 is about the time-image which is related but again not synonomous with post-war cinema, especially from the italian neo-realist movement on. Both books are readily available in english translation, but are really hermetic and difficult. I don't understand half of it.

.... Deleuze and his "Cinema" books. :roll: I don't even understand half of it. It sounds like you at least derived the main points!! I tried to read Cinema 1 and didn't get very far at all... I was curious because it is required film theory reading for students in the Comparative Literature Program at Colombia University in New York. It seems like a good semiotics seminar would be good preparation for reading his work - but then even that doesn't prepare for all the words these French guys make up. If someone could explain why his book matters, I would be more motivated to read it....