Super 8 Camera Shop Refusing to refund Postage and Fees!

Forum covering all aspects of small gauge cinematography! This is the main discussion forum.

Moderator: Andreas Wideroe

User avatar
Andersens Tears
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:13 pm
Real name: Jamie Noakes
Location: Östersund, Sweden
Contact:

Super 8 Camera Shop Refusing to refund Postage and Fees!

Post by Andersens Tears »

Ok, now Mr Uhmeyer is refusing to refund me anything other than the 300 Euros for the camera....

Not the PAyPal fees of 12 Euros that he charged

Not the 18 Eruos shipping from him to me

Not the 24GBP that it cost me to retun the camera

No apology for his mistake

So I am now nearly 50GBP out of pocket because of HIS MISTAKE!

I retunrned the camera within 14 days - If German law states that anything can be returned within 14 days for a full refund, what do I do?

ALSO PayPal don't allow anyone to charge fees!

HELP! ANYONE???

P.S. this is the Canon 814xl-s that was mentioned in my previous thread!

He's already sent the 300 Euros by paypal - BUT he's sent it to my hotmail email address! THIS IS NOT MY PAYPAL ACCOUNT - what do I do? Is that money stuck in limbo somewhere? I can't work out how tp get that money?

Tears :cry:
matt5791
Senior member
Posts: 1062
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 2:46 pm
Location: Birmingham, England
Contact:

Post by matt5791 »

If he has offered the refund for the camera then he should definitely offer the other direct costs incurred by yourself. This is because they are as a direct result of what seems to be a misdescription.

You should insist that he refunds you the other costs. By offering you the refund he has he is essentially admitting liability (unless he has couched this in "goodwill gesture" terms)

I would just keep on at him, because it sounds like a misdescription which he has admitted. In the Uk this would be covered by S.13 of the Sale of Goods Act 1979. The 1898 Act, that this is derived from, set the standard pretty much all over the world - English or German law, you can't go around misdescribing items.

Ask paypal about the hotmail address, see what they say.

Matt
Birmingham UK.
http://www.wells-photography.co.uk
Avatar: Kenneth Moore (left) with producers (centre) discussing forthcoming film to be financed by my grandfather (right) C.1962
User avatar
Andersens Tears
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:13 pm
Real name: Jamie Noakes
Location: Östersund, Sweden
Contact:

Post by Andersens Tears »

Thanks Matt,

I've managed to get the payment of 300Euros refused and returned to Mr Uhmeyer.

I have also sent him this email:

Dear Mr Uhmeyer,

Please send payment to my PayPal account email **********@ntl.com. Jamie16mm@hotmail.com is not my paypal address - I have had to refuse the payment.

I need a full refund, since it was your listing error (not notifying me of the scratch) that has resulted in me returning the camera. Therefore I should not be held responsible.

Also german law provides protection for such transactions and states that any item returned within 14 days of receipt for a full refund including shipping costs, even if you state otherwise on your website. I have friends in Germany who can provide me with all the relevant details.

I have also been informed that PayPal do not allow Sellers to charge fees for using PayPal.

Pleas refund me the full amount of 329 Euros plus the 24GBP it cost me to send the camera back, to my paypal address - ********@ntl.com

Thank you and best regards,

Jamie


I am now keeping my fingers crossed that Mr Uhmeyer sees sence and does the right thing.........
User avatar
Andersens Tears
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:13 pm
Real name: Jamie Noakes
Location: Östersund, Sweden
Contact:

Post by Andersens Tears »

seems mr uhmeyer wants to play silly beggars - here is his reply-

Hello,

For first you must to cancel this payment because I will not sent it twice.
Second - the German law is for November 2004 changed where I can choose to pay shipping cost back or not.
When you want Paypal fees back than pay 18.50 Euro for shipping and I will cancel your first payment.

Best regards

Uhmeyer

........................and here is my repsonse:

I have refused the first payment so it will have been returned to you

Why do I have to pay another 18.50 Euros to get my PayPal fees back?

I have already paid shipping twice!

You should refund the money since it was your error and not mine.

Please send a full refund to my paypal account: **********@ntl.com

and the matter will be closed.

thank you

Jamie
User avatar
MovieStuff
Posts: 6135
Joined: Wed May 01, 2002 1:07 am
Real name: Roger Evans
Location: Kerrville, Texas
Contact:

Post by MovieStuff »

The fact that he sent money to the wrong email address means that, as far as PayPal is concerned, he hasn't sent you any money at all. File a complaint with PayPal and explain that the item is not as described. When he shipped you the item, did he send it by tracked courier? If he did not, then you actually have the upper hand because he is required to prove that you received the item by providing a tracking number. At least, that's the way it works here in the United States. Any emails that show correspondence about the item do not count as proof that you even have it ( I don't know why, actually, but that's the way PayPal operates).

I would also file a compaint with ebay and explain that not only is the item not as described but that he is charging PayPal fees. In this case, your emails are of value because they reflect his refusal to refund the PayPal fees, etc. Keep all emails that he has sent you so that, if necessary, you can submit them to ebay, along with the header information. Technically, even if you loved the camera and wanted to keep it, he would be required to refund the PayPal fees because he is not allowed to charge them, according to ebay rules.

One thing: Do NOT engage one of ebay's "Dispute Resolution" people. That is a total waste of time because the person that you end up paying to negotiate does not work for ebay and has no jurisdiction (most people don't know this). Also, anything that they find they are not allowed to report to ebay for some dumbass reason. Basically you end up paying for nothing because, based on my experience, anyone trying to rip you off knows that the negotiator has no real power and it ends up being just a delay tactic that costs you even more money. Just file a complaint with PayPal and ebay and get on with it. You've given this guy as much understanding as he deserves.

You pay fees to both ebay and PayPal. Now let them work for you and earn their money.

Roger
http://www.moviestuff.tv
User avatar
Andersens Tears
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:13 pm
Real name: Jamie Noakes
Location: Östersund, Sweden
Contact:

Post by Andersens Tears »

ok, so after some frantic email correspondence mr uhmeyer has finally refunded me my original payment of 329 Euros that included paypal fees and shipping to me. :o

Not the retun costs..... :(

So, what have I lost?

About 30 GBP Lots of my time and many sleepless hours...... :cry:


...... thanks again to everyone for your support....

Jamie
User avatar
MovieStuff
Posts: 6135
Joined: Wed May 01, 2002 1:07 am
Real name: Roger Evans
Location: Kerrville, Texas
Contact:

Post by MovieStuff »

Andersens Tears wrote:ok, so after some frantic email correspondence mr uhmeyer has finally refunded me my original payment of 329 Euros that included paypal fees and shipping to me. :o

Not the retun costs..... :(
I think that is actually fairly reasonable. Most any company that you buy from requires that you pay for return shipping. I am glad he came through and did the honorable thing. The super 8 community is too small to weather a bad reputation.

Roger
http://www.moviestuff.tv
matt5791
Senior member
Posts: 1062
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 2:46 pm
Location: Birmingham, England
Contact:

Post by matt5791 »

I would keep on about the £30. It seems the camera was blatently misdescribed.

Now that you have the bulk of the cash returned I would say that there is not an awful lot to loose?

Matt
Birmingham UK.
http://www.wells-photography.co.uk
Avatar: Kenneth Moore (left) with producers (centre) discussing forthcoming film to be financed by my grandfather (right) C.1962
User avatar
monobath
Senior member
Posts: 1254
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 7:11 am
Real name: Skip
Location: 127.0.0.1
Contact:

Post by monobath »

I'd call it good at this point. Count your blessings and move on. You've already expended a lot of energy with good results, but there is a point of diminishing returns. Like Roger said, return shipping is almost universally the responsibility of the person returning the item. Forget it and move on.
Angus
Senior member
Posts: 3888
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 11:22 am
Contact:

Post by Angus »

At this point I would accept the money and call it quits. You're quite obviously not going to buy from the super8 camera-shop again and your case will make us all think twice before buying any cameras from him.

As I've said before, I've bought from him several times including last month and never had any trouble...but I've not bought a camera from him and would certainly seek written guarantees from him if I did so.
User avatar
Andersens Tears
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:13 pm
Real name: Jamie Noakes
Location: Östersund, Sweden
Contact:

Post by Andersens Tears »

I need to go and take some downtime.... apart from this tress, I've had last minute problems with my Digital Shorts application to Screen South.... and the heat outside is almost umbearable..... phew...

I never want to go through this again, so I will not be purchasing anything more from Mr Uhmeyer. There are so many other honorable sellers out there..... shop around!

Thanks again to you all........

Jamie
User avatar
Andersens Tears
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:13 pm
Real name: Jamie Noakes
Location: Östersund, Sweden
Contact:

Post by Andersens Tears »

MovieStuff wrote:The fact that he sent money to the wrong email address means that, as far as PayPal is concerned, he hasn't sent you any money at all. File a complaint with PayPal and explain that the item is not as described. When he shipped you the item, did he send it by tracked courier? If he did not, then you actually have the upper hand because he is required to prove that you received the item by providing a tracking number. At least, that's the way it works here in the United States. Any emails that show correspondence about the item do not count as proof that you even have it ( I don't know why, actually, but that's the way PayPal operates).

I would also file a compaint with ebay and explain that not only is the item not as described but that he is charging PayPal fees. In this case, your emails are of value because they reflect his refusal to refund the PayPal fees, etc. Keep all emails that he has sent you so that, if necessary, you can submit them to ebay, along with the header information. Technically, even if you loved the camera and wanted to keep it, he would be required to refund the PayPal fees because he is not allowed to charge them, according to ebay rules.

One thing: Do NOT engage one of ebay's "Dispute Resolution" people. That is a total waste of time because the person that you end up paying to negotiate does not work for ebay and has no jurisdiction (most people don't know this). Also, anything that they find they are not allowed to report to ebay for some dumbass reason. Basically you end up paying for nothing because, based on my experience, anyone trying to rip you off knows that the negotiator has no real power and it ends up being just a delay tactic that costs you even more money. Just file a complaint with PayPal and ebay and get on with it. You've given this guy as much understanding as he deserves.

You pay fees to both ebay and PayPal. Now let them work for you and earn their money.

Roger
http://www.moviestuff.tv
Thanks for the support and good advice Roger - and to everyone!
User avatar
Andersens Tears
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:13 pm
Real name: Jamie Noakes
Location: Östersund, Sweden
Contact:

Post by Andersens Tears »

Angus wrote:At this point I would accept the money and call it quits. You're quite obviously not going to buy from the super8 camera-shop again and your case will make us all think twice before buying any cameras from him.

As I've said before, I've bought from him several times including last month and never had any trouble...but I've not bought a camera from him and would certainly seek written guarantees from him if I did so.
It's good to have balanced view points - your experience up until now has been good, but you've not bought a camera from him.

I think you might be right.... I got most of the money back.... don't wanna frett about the rest.... maybe it's not worth it! I just want closure!!!

Jamie
User avatar
Andersens Tears
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:13 pm
Real name: Jamie Noakes
Location: Östersund, Sweden
Contact:

Post by Andersens Tears »

monobath wrote:I'd call it good at this point. Count your blessings and move on. You've already expended a lot of energy with good results, but there is a point of diminishing returns. Like Roger said, return shipping is almost universally the responsibility of the person returning the item. Forget it and move on.
I'm think you're right! It might be a good idea to move on......
thanks,

Jamie
User avatar
Andersens Tears
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:13 pm
Real name: Jamie Noakes
Location: Östersund, Sweden
Contact:

Post by Andersens Tears »

matt5791 wrote:I would keep on about the £30. It seems the camera was blatently misdescribed.

Now that you have the bulk of the cash returned I would say that there is not an awful lot to loose?

Matt
Good point Matt..... But, I think I might just get closure on this now and move on.....

All the best,

Jamie
Post Reply