The Supermag 400 is now ready!

[Dave Hardy]

Thanks for the update Paul. I must have missed your original announcement. I sold my JK converted DS8 Bolex about a year before you announced your project. I'll probably pick up another DS8 when your perforating machine is up & running.

Kodak's enthusiasm for Super 8 has always been lukewarm. When Ricky Leacock was hired by M.I.T. to teach a filmmaking course, he took Super 8 filmaking in a direction that Kodak really didn't want to go. However Leacock saw the potential to turn off the shelf consumer 8mm gear into a lightweight crystal sync medium that would allow anyone to make the kind of cinema verite films that he & Pennybaker had been making through Bob Drew's company Drew & Associates.

When Bob Doyle in Cambridge Ma. saw what Leacock had achieved, he set out to make Leacock's vision a reality. Doyle's company Super 8 Sound produced a complete range of equipment that offered to Super 8 filmmakers the capabilities that formerly had only been available to 16mm & 35mm filmmakers.

Eventually Bob Doyle arrived at the conclusion that Super 8 had no future & he sold the company to one of his employees Phil Vigeant. Phil continued to produce the equipment for many yrs. after Bob had left & even added a range of new equipment. After a number of years Phil left the Cambridge Company in Guy Holt while he set up a branch of the company in L.A. There have definitely been some negative consequences to this move. Inadequate quality control & lack of concern for customers outside the greater L.A. area being probably high on the list of concerns.

In spite of all the shortcomings of Phil's company Pro8mm, I doubt that Super 8 would be as healthy as it is today. It finally got through Kodak's thick skull that there was a market for Super 8 negative film in cartridges after Phil had been doing this for years. I don't think we'd have the number of companies with Super 8 gates on their flying spot scanners if Phil hadn't taken the lead & established that there were Super 8 customers who wanted this service.

Your perforating machine & Dave Sipman's Super 8 machine offer the hope of an extended life for the Super 8 format. The fact that Phil's company in spite of its innovative approach has resulted in so much negativity is an illustration of how important quality control & good customer relations are equally important.

As the only Super 8 camera currently in production is the Russian Quartz camera. I think Dave's magazine provides a solution for the immediate future. In the long range I think that double super8 may provide the answer for survival of the format, mainly because there are so many Bolex cameras that can be modified & so many camera repair services which can offer repairs. The essential ingredient is a service to provide the slitting down of larger format stocks & perforating them for DS8. Even if Francis is successful in raising the number customers to place the order for the double super 8 stock, I wouldn't at all be surprised to here that Kodak reneged on the order.

Even though the progress with the perforating machine may be slow, I think it is important to continue as it may ultimately be essential for the survival of the format.

All the best.
Dave Hardy

[DzFX]

I certainly appreciate your efforts on this.

Of course as mentioned earlier the developing of this increased amount of film raises some interesting future problems as well.

But anyways
Best of luck!

[supermag400_inventor]

What is this I read about a Russian Super 8 camera?
If this is true, I would like to know what the company's name is so I could get more info on it.

This could be worth looking into.



Dave Sipmann

[Scotness]

What is this I read about a Russian Super 8 camera?
If this is true, I would like to know what the company's name is so I could get more info on it.

This could be worth looking into.



Dave Sipmann

http://www.filmshooting.com./scripts/fo ... 72&start=0

[paulcotto]

Thank you for your kind words :oops: I enjoyed learning the eMachine Shop software and designing the pressure plate. So you are using a rock tumbler to polish the plates? That’s the way the big camera companies do it. I remember a Hasselblad advertisement in photo shopper magazine that mentioned that's the way they polish there parts. They start out with abrasive, then to rice, then wheat to get the finest metal finish.
Regards,
Paul Cotto

For those of you who would be interested to know. Paul Cotto was very very helpful to me in my development of the Supermag 400 gate plate. He aided me in designing the plate out of steel. I sent him a plastic one I used and he did a CAD drawing of a Russian plate that was even better. Then I had it made into the steel parts I'm now using. He deserves a hand of applause!

Thank you Paul.


Dave

[supermag400_inventor]

That's interesting...rice, never would have thought of that. Great idea!
I used the polishing compounds that came with it. But they are messy.
The idea of using rice and wheat is a good deal. Cheep too!

I'll give it a try next time I roll the parts.


Dave

[paulcotto]

I would start out with the abrasive then move on to the rice for the final polishing.

Paul Cotto

That's interesting...rice, never would have thought of that. Great idea!
I used the polishing compounds that came with it. But they are messy.
The idea of using rice and wheat is a good deal. Cheep too!

I'll give it a try next time I roll the parts.


Dave

[supermag400_inventor]

Does anyone out there in Super 8 land have a complete list of all the manufactured cameras that can accept magazines?

I still have many people ask that question and I don't know all the cameras that could accept the 200 foot cartridges.

If the camera can accept a Kodak 200 foot cartridge then it will accept a Supermag 400 magazine. The dimensions of the module (cartridge part) is the same as a 200 foot Kodack cartridge.

However, I have only tried the Supermag in the Elmo 1012S-XL, the Elmo 230S-XL, the Beaulieu 6008 and a Pro 8mm Beaulieu camera.

If anyone has a complete list, please send it to me.

Thanks!

Dave Sipmann

[Patrick]

Congratulations on the near-to-market-release of the Supermag 400. I welcome this new addition to the super 8 film maker's arsenal of resources. I do have one concern though which I hope has already been given attention to in the testing.

There was a recent post on this forum regarding problems with the Frame Master pressure plate. People had reported that film was not advancing when this pressure plate was inserted. The footage counter was moving along and giving the impression that film was running through the camera but in actual fact, the film was not being transported at all. Apparently, a Canon 1014E and some Beaulieu model were experiencing these problems. Although the Canon 1014E is not applicable in your case since it cannot accept a magazine, there may be some magazine-loading super 8 cameras that may have a similar design which could potentially cause transport problems.

A theory was given in that there may have been a weak motor running, or perhaps low batteries, and that the pressure plate was adding resistance. It is good that you are compiling a complete list of super 8 cameras that can accept magazines. If all of these different models could be tested with the Supermag, this would provide conclusive evidence of how well the magazine truly works, regardless of what camera the film maker is using it with. I think it would also be a good test if you could film some high speed footage with the magazine, like 54fps, and also running it with low battery power in the camera just to see how well it can handle these sort of challenges that may occur in real life shooting situations.

Here is the original post relating to the problems of the Frame Master pressure plate.

viewtopic.php?t=7731&highlight=canon+pr ... 8a62619876

[supermag400_inventor]

The pressure plate in the Supermag is shaped exactly like a Kodak plate but is flat steel. There are no ribs or channels like the Kodak plates. The Contact of the plate is a flat pressure against the gate. Therefore there is less chance of the film flexing or moving.

The problems they have with the "Insert" pressure plate is simple, the design is flawed by the fact the small spring that Kodak uses does not have the force to press the weight of the plate plus the additional distance puts stress on the spring. Thus the plate isn't maintained against the gate with proper pressure.

I know these things because, when I started messing around with the gate plates and making them by hand, I tried dozens of different designs and all of them were useless unless the proper pressure was applied to the plate. The gate plate I have works and works well, but good registration is only one hurdle to overcome.

The camera's out there that could be used with the Supermag must be in good working condition. No week motors or defective claws. The mag is designed to allow the film to be pulled down from the disk with the same resistance as you have on a 50 foot cartridge. Even though it's a 400 foot roll. The key is in the plastic bearings of the disk. The films center of gravity aids in the roll moving freely. The rollers in the disk help to prevent "Jerks" of the film and releave the stress on the film and prevent the film from hanging up in the disk. All I know is that it works.

When Phil at Pro 8 was watching the film movement through the mag, he was amazed that it even worked like it did. I said, " Well, the bumble bee isn't suppose to be able to fly either, but it does."

I just hope the last film test turns this whole thing around an gets me off the hook. I just want to see some good film come out of the mag. Nothing else is important...just good film. Otherwise, I'm waisting my time.

I have faith in the last roll. Let's see if my faith is deserved.

Dave

[S8 Booster]

Does anyone out there in Super 8 land have a complete list of all the manufactured cameras that can accept magazines?

I still have many people ask that question and I don't know all the cameras that could accept the 200 foot cartridges.

Thanks!

Dave Sipmann

Here is a list made by this board earlier. Think it is quite complete.

Making a list: Cameras that accept the 200ft cartridge

R

[Nigel]

So do you work for Pro8mm Dave Hardy?? Because that was quite a shining review of what I feel is a very crooked company.

Good Luck

[supermag400_inventor]

I suspect that some of you have been burned by Pro 8mm.

(Da! .. Gee ya think?)

Everyone is allowed to make mistakes. Some make more than others. I'm not any different. I've made many and will probably make a lot more before I get called up to the big movie studio in the sky.

Pro 8 has several people working for them, no doubt. Just like any business things happen that are not good customer relations. It's a shame these things happen, because it hurts super 8 as a whole. Because if Pro 8 someday folds, and it's because of public relations and not lack of product, then we all pay the price. Super 8 needs all of us to work towards a single goal. Help super 8 survive the next 10 years and then the next 10 after that. We owe it to our children and their grandchildren to preseve the "Flickering celuloid" we love so much.

Lets not kill the few suppliers of super 8 products, but instead incourage better understanding through communication.

Now that I've said all that.....I'll go back in my cave.


Dave

[Alex]

I may have discovered the reason for the recent fogging problem on the last test film. I was thinking it over and it occured to me that the exposure may be coming from the camera door "window". Since the mag is made like a sound cartridge, the bottom of the magazine is open in the sound gate. When I shot the fiilm the other day, it was very bright outside and the light comming through the door window may have done it. Since the foam that surrounds the window on the door has deteriorated over the years. That may be the culprit. So, I plan to shoot another test with the door window blocked out. Lets see it that helps!

Again guys, thanks for your support! I do appreciate the butt kicking. Now I can see my errors.

Dave

I'd review the fogged footage you have already shot and see if you can notice a distinct moment in time as it relates to the stopping and starting of the camera where the fogging intensity changes.

I see we've moved on to other issues of more importance than the one above.

[thebrowniecameraguy]

This might be a silly question, and its probably been answered before; but.

Why is it so wide? I have several 200' Kodak mags and they are a little about the width of 16mm film considering(DUH!).

But, the supermag looks like something from a 65mm movie camera. Or am I completely off?

Dave, could you add a picture to your website of the camera/magazine outfit pointing directly at the digital camera?


Cheers,
Jordan