250-500 people pay for new super8 camera over 12 months...

Post by **Kaberthur** » Sat May 24, 2003 10:49 am

schvatz wrote:BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA TO THE WHOLE LOT OF YOU!

What is a discussion group for ?

schvatz wrote:I am so sick of this stupid bull shit!!!!!

Moderator, please...

Post by **mattias** » Sat May 24, 2003 5:36 pm

schvatz wrote:would't it have been easier to tity fuck and American woman

how do you american someone and why is it easier? ;-)

/matt

Post by **Carlos 8mm** » Sat May 24, 2003 7:14 pm

Ok folks, let's back to the original Topic.

Eric, I think that before to built a new super 8 camera, we must to increase the demand of S8/DS8 film.

I'm not saying something new, but Super 8 film represents a little percentage in the Kodak's sales.

Sadly we depend of Kodak as the only one supplier of Super 8 film (except for Kahl).

We need new stocks, as Ektachrome 100D or Velvia 50 or 100D,etc., which can be sold in 50 or 200 ft spools and to be loaded in reloadable cartridges.

I'm very happy that people of this forum propose new ideas to maintain Super 8 alive, and I think that reloadable carts is the key to do it.

For that reason we should make an effort to get new and cheap stocks which can be processed in any place of the world.

Carlos.

Post by **Basstruc** » Sun May 25, 2003 3:56 am

i think the beaulieu 4008ZM camera has everything one needs

Not really shure of it, there's other S8 camera maybe better built than this but, something we never spoke about, there's a feel with this camera. Don't know what but I love it, even if I have other well made cams...

1. redesign of viewfinder mirror assembly - master mirror should be able to be removed and replaced with 3 chip ccd for recording(like the mini35, or video tap). perhaps a system wherein both the regular viewfinder and a ccd camera can be used at the same time. the viewfinder would be larger, and would rotate.

Like Roger did consider it... But I'm not shure it's a good idea. You will not gain features with this. The CCD device will still be 50fps (on pal) with no intercheangeable speed. The DOP will only be kind of the same as 2/3" chip cameras, not like mini35 who got the 35mm cine DOP. Would just be a lot more difficult to do sync sound....

2. built-in slate. a small lcd on the side of the camera would allow you to enter scene #, take #, etc., and would then send a command to a groundglass-like assembly that would move in front of the film so it could record a frame on the film, and it would also send a audio signal to the audio recording deck. this should have enough memory to store dozens of carts, hundreds of scenes, an exportable as an edl. this should in fact be the central control system for the entire camera, saving additional info like fps, light meter readings, asa/filmstock settings, lens type w/apature setting, focal lenght, and focus ring settings, and more, so one knows what they

Funny but shurely far more difficult to build than really needed. Better and easier to build a device, coupled with Roger's Workprinter, that would recocgnize the frame you have to do the cut from the edl on your computer. This would allow you to edit your film to do a blow-up after.

3. crystal sync built-in, switchable between 24 and 25. fps would be 1-96, perhaps even faster.

Totally agree with this.

4. in addition to an asa control(normally 10-400, this may be improved upon), i believe the camera should have a control to select the film stock type(k40, tri-x, 50d, 500t, 800t, etc.).

To do what ??

5. carterage memory control - can store memory for multiple carts, so one can remove cart, use another, replace first cart, and recall setting, and have accurate frame/footage info.

A good piece of paper and a pen do the job as efficiently as this.

6. battery option. disposable or rechargable.

Yes. May I suggest a socket to accept ordinary NiCad that are on DV cams?

8. removable handle and trigger setup - so it works with tripod, dollies, matteboxes, jibs, whatever, allowing one to plug in an extension allowing the trigger to be mounted elsewhere.

The easiest thing of the list. I agree it is a need.

9. interval timer

Yes, I was thinking that about a remote. This one would get several feature like on/off, trigger, interval timer from 1fps to 30min per frame, zoom and focus and diaph control and a little lcd on top in order to get video assist on it and eventually the video of a little bw pinhole cam on the lens in order to check at any moment the diaph, focal and focus ring setting (to use on a jib for exemple).

11. self blimped by design

Yes,yes, yes...

12. master/slave - the camera should have the ability to be connected(by wire or remote) to other cameras, of this same type, so that one of the cameras in the multi-camera shoot creates a master start/stop, control

Doable from the remote.

and also writes information specific to each camera on the chain, so that if camera 3 is one frame 1500, and camera 2 is on frame 1000, and camera 1 is on frame 350, the operator knows this by way of the on-camera edl.

Wow, far more to complicated, a good slate would do this.

May I had once again a 1/50 shutter time for 25fps (and all frame rates) ? And a digital frame counter.
Why not a Incident light meter built-in like on the A-Minima ?

Matt

Post by **jukkasil** » Mon May 26, 2003 8:37 am

My little advertise:

I have started to make my first JSC-named small gauge film camera (prototype), that will include these features:

Film speeds: 1-75 fps crystal synched (super 8 ), 1-100 fps (double super 8/ 16 mm and super 16 versions).

I'll start to design at the first 16/super 16 camera, then DS8 and super 8 versions.

Shutter: rotating mirror shutter

Viewfinder: Reflex (true 16:9 in super 8 and ds8, 1,66:1 in super 16)

Rock steady image quality also with super 8 cartridge cause of totally new design.

Variable interval speeds: 1 fps - 1 frame per 24 h

Variable time exposure.

Also other never seen options (perhaps Theremin controlled film speed!!

)

Silent motor/mechanism.

23-60 % larger image (16:9) than in normal super 8 (4:3) using normal super 8 cartridge or DS8 format.

Video assist.

Optional lcd display for time code, film speed etc.

M42 mount or C-mount: cheap lenses.

Manual exposure only.

Prices will go from 1500 to 2000 Euros (anyway all will be under 2k Euros), this is my target and the most important thing in this project.

No more info here, cause I don't want to get my idea stolen by some other persons! 8)

Just let me know, if you're interested!

PS. This isn't joke, I'm very serious about this project and I'll let you know more, when I have something real to show you.

Post by **rhcvatni** » Mon May 26, 2003 8:49 am

The whole idea is growing on me, just like the Ikonoskop has. At first I totally rejected the Ikonoskop and now I'm starting to love it. I just got tired of looking for old cameras on ebay. Looking over and over again and checking with people about this and that. If I finally buy something, I just hope it works, If not I have to get it serviced and the whole idea is just crawling up my ass. I don't know how to fix stuff myself or do anything so that's probably why. I apologize to Eric for beeing so negative before and throwing his ideas back in his face. I'm Sorry! And I welcome Jukkasil's "secret project".

Post by **Guest-** » Mon May 26, 2003 10:05 am

Anything that can maintain or even increase the marketability of Super 8 cannot be bad. I just do not think that I can be one of those people who can afford to contribute to the project unfortunately. Why did Beaulieu pull the plug on super 8? ( or is the answer to this question too obvious?)

Post by **mattias** » Mon May 26, 2003 12:22 pm

regarding the ikonoskop, are there any c-mount zoom lenses with built in reflex viewfinders that cover s16, and perhaps even show s16 in the finder or can easily be adapted to? if i can find such a lens in good condition i'll buy the a-cam right away...

/matt

Post by **MovieMaker** » Mon May 26, 2003 12:29 pm

Jukka!
IÃ‚Â´m definitely interested in your new Super-8 camera! :lol:

I know that you arenÃ‚Â´t willing to give more informations, but - can you give an estimate, when a Super-8 version will be available or in what project status you are?

Thanks and good luck for this ambitious project!

MovieMaker

Post by **jukkasil** » Mon May 26, 2003 1:38 pm

MovieMaker wrote:Jukka!
IÃ‚Â´m definitely interested in your new Super-8 camera! :lol:

I know that you arenÃ‚Â´t willing to give more informations, but - can you give an estimate, when a Super-8 version will be available or in what project status you are?

Thanks and good luck for this ambitious project!

MovieMaker

Well I'm working with that prototype version of camera right now, I already have rotate shutter mechanism and reflex viewfinder ready.

I'll start to design that suitable motor with crystal sync very soon.

That's the next step. I think it will take me some months (2-6 months) to put the first prototype camera together, don't know sure, let see what happens!

This camera will be something like Workprinter: hand made constructions
with couple innovations hadn't done before. The best format for it would be DS8 (easiest to make and has 30 (60) meters rolls etc.), but the idea is also suitable for super 8 cartridge.

Post by **Carlos 8mm** » Mon May 26, 2003 8:33 pm

jukkasil wrote:
23-60 % larger image (16:9) than in normal super 8 (4:3) using normal super 8 cartridge or DS8 format.

Hi Jukka,
Mi S8 camera have a enlarged gate. (this way I get an aspect ratio of 1:1,45 instead the standard 1:1,33.

the full size of a Super 8 frame is 4.23 x 5.69 mm (silent) Mi camera's gate have 4.23 x 6.2 mm. And 6.2 mm is the maximun wide that i can get.

How you will get a 1:1,777(16:9) aspect ratio? Reducing the height of the frame? ( For example, 3.49 x 6.2 mm --> 6.2/3.49 = 1,7777). :?:

Carlos.

Post by **jukkasil** » Tue May 27, 2003 6:27 am

Carlos 8mm wrote:
jukkasil wrote:
23-60 % larger image (16:9) than in normal super 8 (4:3) using normal super 8 cartridge or DS8 format.
Hi Jukka,
Mi S8 camera have a enlarged gate. (this way I get an aspect ratio of 1:1,45 instead the standard 1:1,33.

the full size of a Super 8 frame is 4.23 x 5.69 mm (silent) Mi camera's gate have 4.23 x 6.2 mm. And 6.2 mm is the maximun wide that i can get.

How you will get a 1:1,777(16:9) aspect ratio? Reducing the height of the frame? ( For example, 3.49 x 6.2 mm --> 6.2/3.49 = 1,7777). :?:

Carlos.

I know that Carlos!

There is also another way to do it, but don't want to tell more about it yet.

Post by **mattias** » Tue May 27, 2003 12:07 pm

There is also another way to do it, but don't want to tell more about it yet.

shift the pulldown and use the area between the perfs, just like ultra 16?

/matt

Post by **Carlos 8mm** » Tue May 27, 2003 5:21 pm

mattias wrote:
There is also another way to do it, but don't want to tell more about it yet.
shift the pulldown and use the area between the perfs, just like ultra 16?

/matt

Yeah, but this way you will lose vertical resolution. :?

Anyway, I'm glad to see Eric, Jukka, Paul, Roger and other guy in this Forun, willing to build cameras and reloadable cartridges to improve
Super 8.

Good Luck to all, guys!

Carlos.

Post by **Lucas Lightfeat** » Tue May 27, 2003 7:40 pm

mattias wrote:regarding the ikonoskop, are there any c-mount zoom lenses with built in reflex viewfinders that cover s16, and perhaps even show s16 in the finder or can easily be adapted to? if i can find such a lens in good condition i'll buy the a-cam right away...

/matt

Well, they will be coming out with a PL mount/video assist port/reflex viwfinder add-on which goes on between the lens and body apparently, so maybe that is the answer to your needs.

Lucas