does pro8mm.com really off set the lens on MAX 8?

Post by **Mitch Perkins** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:06 am

MovieStuff wrote:Experimenting with a cheap camera was just a friendly suggestion to familiarize yourself with the modification process.

Roger

I had a camera I got for nothing off a friend, fixed gate, no screws. Took a dremel tool and shoved it in there - plastic dust everywhere! Worked great - no scratches, minimal vignetting...

814XLS (Rick's) was SD8 modded and provided yeomen service. There was some vignetting, but I really don't care - the main objective was to eliminate the need during telecine to mask the mask. Instead we were able to crop to the edge of usable picture area.

The whole thing was done in the spirit of experimentation, so any low grade moron who whines about not having tech spec info spoon-fed to them about the process is missing the point.

For the record, and for good - widening the gate, if done carefully, will not adversly affect capture in 4:3. You don't have to use the extra image, and it won't muck up film-transport. Scratches are not from the gate; they are from processor wheels, which are not designed to protect the very edge of the film.

Mitch

Post by **timdrage** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:44 pm

Scotness wrote:I'd suggest getting a Leicina Special and experimenting on them since theyr'e the bigest piece of crap around when it comes to S8 cameras

Trying to summon a certain Mexican wrestler from this messageboard's past?

Post by **Scotness** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:34 pm

timdrage wrote:
Scotness wrote:I'd suggest getting a Leicina Special and experimenting on them since theyr'e the bigest piece of crap around when it comes to S8 cameras
Trying to summon a certain Mexican wrestler from this messageboard's past?

If he's not here already :lol:

Post by **Rick Palidwor** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:24 am

low grade moron wrote:
In my recent research in the past month to get down to the truth about this gate filing nonsense, I had been unable to find any person who was willing to post the true useful focal length limits of the modification. ie. tested before vignetting renders the image useless.

Every camera is a little different, so no one can quote hard numbers, and if they do they are lying.

And an important point which hasn't come up in this thread yet (unless I missed it) is that the aperture is a major variable. This is another reason hard numbers are hard to generate. A wide open aperture will result in more vignetting. Stop down and it can disappear. And then factor that into the zoom settings.

As to rendering images "useless", this also depends on the nature of the scene. There is actually more vignetting in Sleep Always than most people realize but it is not visible because the scene is DARK (intentionally dark, not to hide the vigneetting, that was just a happy side-effect).

Rick

Post by **wado1942** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:00 am

Hey Rick, we've conversed several times through E-mail and I have a copy of Sleep Always. I've been meaning to ask you if you've done anything using negative film in S-D-8.

Post by **Rick Palidwor** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:07 pm

wado1942 wrote:Hey Rick, we've conversed several times through E-mail and I have a copy of Sleep Always. I've been meaning to ask you if you've done anything using negative film in S-D-8.

I have shot a grand total of 2 rolls of 200T neg and they were full frame. Mitch is the guy on this end to comment on this as he must have done it by now.
Rick

YouTube · Post by **Andreas Wideroe** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:40 pm

Hi,
Mitch or Rick, would it be possible for one of you to shoot a cartridge or two for me in Super Duper 8?

I'm getting work done for a new telecine gate and I would be interested in checking out if it would be possible to enable it for this format?

I'll supply films and pay shipping ofcourse.

Let me know by PM (personal message) please.

Cheers,
Andreas

Post by **Rick Palidwor** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:09 pm

awand wrote:Hi,
Mitch or Rick, would it be possible for one of you to shoot a cartridge or two for me in Super Duper 8?

I'm getting work done for a new telecine gate and I would be interested in checking out if it would be possible to enable it for this format?

I'll supply films and pay shipping ofcourse.

Let me know by PM (personal message) please.

Cheers,
Andreas

Done. (Beat you to it Mitch. It pays to get up at 6am. - Jet lag:)
Rick

Post by **Mitch Perkins** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 11:01 pm

awand wrote:Hi,
Mitch or Rick, would it be possible for one of you to shoot a cartridge or two for me in Super Duper 8?

I'm getting work done for a new telecine gate and I would be interested in checking out if it would be possible to enable it for this format?

Cheers,
Andreas

That's neat! I'd suggest widening to just inside the "sound" edge of the filmstrip, and not revealing the perf; the combination of dark footage, and light spilling around the edge and through the perf can be problematic. Because I use a mirror and lens, and because I opened the gate right up, I get artifacts of the edge and perf in the image when capturing dark [pumped] footage in 4:3. To avoid this I have to insert a removable mask behind the gate - time-consuming.

Your setup may suffer from light leak around the middle of the perf side and all along the other side. Maybe...

Rick Palidwor wrote:Done. (Beat you to it Mitch. It pays to get up at 6am. - Jet lag:)
Rick

Welcome back, Rick. I was actually still up at 6 am (silliness), but offline, I guess. Have fun.

Mitch

Post by **Justin Lovell** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:56 am

Hey Guys,

This was discussed in the past before, and I'm sure you have something similar... but...

I've tried using black electrical tape to cover the sprocket hole in the gate to remove the light leak, and it works fine, but you need to cover the sticky side so it doesn't get dust stuck to it.

Now I use a magnet which works great and is easy to place and remove, but whenever I open the gate, the magnet moves and has to be readjusted. Slightly annoying.

Post by **wado1942** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:48 pm

I wish somebody told me about the sprocket hole problem BEFORE I cut out the gate of my projector a year ago. But I like the tape idea. I'll try that.

Post by **MovieStuff** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:11 pm

wado1942 wrote:I wish somebody told me about the sprocket hole problem BEFORE I cut out the gate of my projector a year ago. But I like the tape idea. I'll try that.

Use a vinyl magnet instead. It makes a perfectly clean cut with an Xacto and doesn't attract hair and debris like a tape edge will.

Roger

Post by **Mitch Perkins** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:51 pm

jusetan wrote:Hey Guys,

This was discussed in the past before, and I'm sure you have something similar... but...

I've tried using black electrical tape to cover the sprocket hole in the gate to remove the light leak, and it works fine, but you need to cover the sticky side so it doesn't get dust stuck to it.

Bolex 150/160s have a piece of ~eternally~ sticky stuff right beside the aperture to attract/trap stray bits of dust etc. The idea is: better on the tape than on the rear lens element.
The same principle should work on a projector gate - better on the tape than on the film.

Mitch

Post by **MovieStuff** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:53 pm

Mitch Perkins wrote: Bolex 150/160s have a piece of ~eternally~ sticky stuff right beside the aperture to attract/trap stray bits of dust etc. The idea is: better on the tape than on the rear lens element.
The same principle should work on a projector gate - better on the tape than on the film.

Mitch

Yes that's an old trick I was taught long ago in building and using optical printers. You put a piece of double sided tape at the bottom of the film chamber below the gate to collect falling debris that might otherwise get moved around by air currents. This is particularly useful on larger 35mm heads that used an air knife to keep the film flat. The tape would catch the loose debris and every so often you change the tape out.

Roger

Post by **Mitch Perkins** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:42 am

MovieStuff wrote:
Mitch Perkins wrote: Bolex 150/160s have a piece of ~eternally~ sticky stuff right beside the aperture to attract/trap stray bits of dust etc. The idea is: better on the tape than on the rear lens element.
The same principle should work on a projector gate - better on the tape than on the film.

Mitch
Yes that's an old trick [...]

Roger

Well, them Bolexes ain't spring chickens...~:?)

Anyhoo, what I noticed about my mask is that it's imperfect in the sense that it mounts on the back of the gate, which means it's not 100% flush with the film plane, and that means it's out of focus in relation to the filmstrip edge, which in turn means I can't place it right up to the filmstrip edge, because then I get bleed-in of the out of focus black, so placement is tricky. Gotta back it off a tick.

Putting some little bit of something in there that is flush with the film plane, while being removable, is well-nigh impossible - what's it going to attach to? You could do it permanently with epoxy and buff that smooth...

To avoid all this, widen the gate to just inside both perf and sound edge. You'll have your Superduper 8 and no light leak/artifacts. And cake, too, if you want it.

Mitch