i can assure you it isn't. how many countries have you lived in, to use your own style of argumentation (number of beta sp decks owned and so on)? have you lived in europe or is it south america and the middle east, or even the media image of those parts of the world you're comparing with?
/matt
Fair enough, I am basing it on only living in the U.S.
and perhaps our treatment of women is based primarily on economics, but when a women can go to court and force change that reverberates through society, it speaks volumes for the rights of people not being tied to their physical stature or monetary place in the world.
In many parts of the world, women are not treated that well.
Lawyers are annoying and scary to most people (includig me), but in their own way, landmark cases create equality for those previously perceived to be weaker.
Alex wrote:"The repair costs more than the camera, WHAT A RIP-OFF!!! 8O 8O
This is nothing new. If you buy a toaster and it breaks, fixing it will cost you twice the price of a new one. Come on, we're talking $150 for a pro camera! Why not spend $200 getting it in top shape? I don't mind a second - and where on earth do you get, say a pro DV camera for $350?
Andreas
The whole reason I wrote this topic post is as equipment prices drop, it will become easier and easier to complain that something costs more than the camera, and I think that will be very harmful to the Super-8 community.
Why are you so arrogant that you believe only America, of all the Western democracies, have these values?
Do you even have passport?
I suspect that many of the members who post on this forum come from countries which accord women civil rights that are similar to America's or go even further than America's.
Do you not realise how many people you alienate with our jingoistic superiority????
Alex wrote:However, in America the women is respected more than in any other country, that is why you stand in front of a judge when you divorce. In other countries, women are circumcised at birth, FORCED to wear veils, stripped of their power arbitrarily, married off part in parcel with a dowry.
I would like to ask alex abou the planet he lives in. I live in planet earth, and never heard about that, "other countries"? What are you talking about? What world is that? America and the "rest of countries"? And what an absurd to say that in America women are more respected than anywhere else... I bet you never left America. I can say that the french people respect women in many ways, and in Brasil they are respected in other ways, as for the "women in veils" i can say they might be repressed, violated and so on, but at least they don't sell their bodies to pornography and vulgarity, as many american women do. In that case the mid-eastern women are much more respected than the american women. There are many forms of respect, many ways of thinking. You should start paying attention to other realities, you and many other americans, the problem is that you might start learning the hard way, when everybody will start revolting against your country...
I never said only America has these values. I said that because of our courts, we create level playing fields for women.
And "respected more" doesn't mean women aren't respected anywhere else, as you have implied I said. I also gave several examples of women who are held back, are you refuting they don't exist in other parts of the world?
Alex wrote:However, in America the women is respected more than in any other country, that is why you stand in front of a judge when you divorce. In other countries, women are circumcised at birth, FORCED to wear veils, stripped of their power arbitrarily, married off part in parcel with a dowry.
I would like to ask alex abou the planet he lives in. I live in planet earth, and never heard about that, "other countries"? What are you talking about? What world is that? America and the "rest of countries"? And what an absurd to say that in America women are more respected than anywhere else... I bet you never left America. I can say that the french people respect women in many ways, and in Brasil they are respected in other ways, as for the "women in veils" i can say they might be repressed, violated and so on, but at least they don't sell their bodies to pornography and vulgarity, as many american women do. In that case the mid-eastern women are much more respected than the american women. There are many forms of respect, many ways of thinking. You should start paying attention to other realities, you and many other americans, the problem is that you might start learning the hard way, when everybody will start revolting against your country...
I recommend you go back and READ my first post on this page, page three.
I clearly said, "Fair enough" when replying to Mattias. That meant I respected his response and thought it was a good point. But the respondents after that just went off seeing blood.
By the way , fitzcaraldo, I agree with your last point about the rest of the world getting angrier and angrier at the U.S. as time goes on.
And that is why I say that the one thing the United States needs to do is not allow corporations to give to the Political Party of their choice. The money should be anonymously put into a general fund, and then just given equally to the major parties.
This would remove the president doing the bidding of the corporations that gave money to their campaign. If that reform does not happen, then I think eventually there will be continued escalation of bad feelings.
But keep in mind, Corporations are not all bad. They do follow procedures based on respect and commitment that create jobs and productivity.
As for the use of the word arrogant, I think what is arrogant is not respecting my view and simply offering a differing opinion. Basstruc's curt and cryptic response, now that was arrogant. No offer of an explanation, just a "You don't really believe that", and that was it.
Not bad if you have $5000.00 USD laying around you don't need. Honestly I can only take on one big project at a time, but I will consider it in the future.
Regards,
Paul Cotto
Guest- wrote:Paul,
What's the outlook on the regular 8 perfing?
Don't worry about equipment so much and make your movie!
i have falen into the same trap i believe you are currently stuck in. there is no point telling other people how they should be or act or behaive or conform as it relates to your own standards and ideals. we are all indeed differant, and there is nothing wrong with you, me, or anyone else sharing our opinions, beleifs, thoughts, or whatever, and be steadfast and commited to them. but there is no point, and no posative benefit to constantly point out other people's/indiviual's faults, or thier inability to follow your rules, or anyone elses rules. you live by your own set of rules, as d each of us. then you live under your governments rules, as do each of us. you have the choice to decide where to live in the world. i decided several years ago that i would live in france. then i decided to live in spain. then i decidd to live in mexico. i am going to decide sooner or later if i am going to live in bhuton. i make these decisions to better facilite my own life and ideals, and to be apart of a bigger system, which no doubt has rules by their very nature to keep its citizens in tune. and in most cases, in slavery, like in america. i can say a million things i dislike/like about america. and i can also say a million things i dislike/like about you, or anyone else. i have that right no matter where i live. but that right ENDS when i start telling you how you should conduct your affairs, or how you should conform to my line of reasoning, or my ideals. i do not have the right to change you or mold you or influence you. i DO have the right to share with you and declare my position in this collective thing called life. i can share with you my opinions, as i am doing now.
people can share as much as they like, or as little as they like. they can tell truths, half truths, or no truths, or a combonation thereof. people cna share compassion, understanding, joy, love, anger, hatrid, jealosy, envy, deception, and so on. but no matter who decides to share what with someone or anyone or everyone, EACH OF US must decide what is best for ourselves. what s best for me??!! we are alone in this universe. sure, we share it with al the other great creatures of the planet, as well as the not so great creatures being humanity, but we share this place none the less, yet we are all alone. only i know my wn thoughts and feelings, not anyone else, just me. and my NATURE drives me to seek companionship, so that i can SHARE myself with others. and in doing so, i then open myself up for anoter human beings thoughts, feelings, love, hatrid, etc. so in times wherin i open myself up to another human being and i receive exactly what my state of being required, i am filled up, and feel complete. when i open myself up and another human being shares with me thier hatrid, my state of being fights it, and looks to expel it entirely. i can only speak for myself. perhaps there are people on this planet who need only receive hatrid and anger and deception, perhaps that is what makes those people, or that particular person whole. perhaps there are people that can only receive love, kidness, inspiration, and so forth, and are not capable of receiving anything like fear, hatrid, etc. perhaps the majority of people have a little bit of each of these things they both share and receive. we are walking memory banks, and everything we share or receive is built layer upon layer from the very first experience we had with any particular feeling/expression/state. if you were born into the world with a mother and father who constantly repremanded you when you did something to their dislike. or if they always ignored you. or always told you how bad you were, then each time you share or receive you do so using your first experiences as your foundation, or ruler, or placemark or reference point, or whatever analogy you wish to coin this phrase/act/reality. so alex, as we are all creatures of our environment, each having our own experiences unique to each of us, yet common to all of us, we must understand we know so very little about our own selves, that to expect to know what is below the immediate surface of anyone else is down right impossible, and simply not reasonable in any stretch of the imagination or longing that we each cary ourselves away with day in and day out. we are constantly trying to confirm who we are by way of sharing or receivign through others. this is obvious, but ths is just my ascertation, and perhaps your's is differant, as is everyone elses.
so, what is the one thing we can commonly understand about one another? we can understand that we are all dfferant. and in understanding this, we can include ourselves in groups, such as this one. and in doing so, we can make it as easy or as difficult as we want to as it relates to SHARING and RECEIVING with one another. and at any level of this process, we can do it truthfully, not so truthfully, or not truthfully at all. we can either share b its and pieces about our real self, or we can paint pictures of who we want others to think we are. or any combo therein. it is up to each of us to determine what works best with each our own selves. now the TRUE measure of our ability to SHARE and RECEIVE with other human beings is if we are able to do it with absolute TRUTH as it relates to the ACTUAL bain of our existance. the very binding nature that all of us understand to be real is all we have defined and experienced ourselves. everything else that has only been imagined, and not experienced by more then one human being is called our imagination, or in some cases it is called faith. also known as ideas. but even these come from our previous layers of experiences/realities/events/acts. so in essense, it could be said we already know all there is to know, but merely have to discover it for ourselves, thereby experiencing it, and making it so. this would then add another layer to the already layered layer upon layer cycle that binds us and makes up the very essense of who we are. so this said, the real issue is if we can live with our own selves in peace, or with healthy balance, or unhealthy balance. and if so, cna we then try to accomplish the same with oter, unique human beings? and herein is the issue and point of this message. if any of us elect to be part of a group, it is entirely up to us to determine our place in the group. so with this conclusion alex, can you say you are satisfied with your position in the group? and can you call upon the other members of the group and have them validate your position? if it makes you whole, and complete, and satisfied to be where you are in this group, then what you SHARE and what you RECEIVE is perfectly acceptable to you, and to the members.
if you represent yourself in real terms, as you have happened to be up and until this point, then the other members know you at face value, and some members may understand you below the surface to a certain degree, which is to say they undertand you as much as you have allowed then to understand you, by way of SHARING and RECIEVING with each of them/us. if we were to look at our group in a stereotypical way, you would be considered what?? for example, lets say you join a group of people, and this group is actually a play, and te play is about a kingdom. it has a king, queen, biship, court, polititions, jokers, entertainers, executioners, and so on. if you joined this play, and it required you to be youself, what role would you play? and if the role you chose was also chosen by other members of the group, how would you make sure you ended up with the role? would you do everything in your power to get the role, no matter who is hurt or effected/infected during the process? or would you be given the role by the other members based on your merit, of which they determined themselves to be warranted, deeming you worthy of the part by the very nature of who you are? or any combo therein?
do you understand? if you are part of a group, you have to make concessions, not compromises to your own truthful charactor, but concessions that are a result of sharing and receivng with all the members of the group. do you belong to a group that judges you for your past? do you belong to a group that expects you to lie? do you belong to a group that requires disputes to be solved with a dual? do you belong to a group that has no intentions? do you belong to a group that is concentrated on enlightenment? what kind of group(s) do you belong to? and in each of these groups, are you playing your role so that all the members are in tune? or are all the members in dissarray? or a combonaton thereof? is it your goal to be part of a group? or be solo within the group? are you interested in sharing and receiving equally? or receiving only? or sharing only? is your interest in the group temporary or long term? do you respect the other members in the group and understand they too have these dynamics in motion? do you understand that it could take one day or 10 years to find your place in any given group? do you understnad everyone else in the group are faced with the same issues?
i write this not to preach at you, or tell you how or why your should or shouldn't do things. i am trying to find my own place in this group so that it serves me and lends to my own personal balance, and so it serves the group and lends to its own collective balance, and to each member indivually so that it may lend to their own balance, be it sharing or receiving in any combonation therein as deemed acceptable and useful for everyone concerned, the least of which should be myself first, then the group, then the other members. perhaps each of us will only serve the group for a short period, or for a prolonged period, or indifinatly. we are not completely aware of our future, not even close. how could we be? we do not even understand our past, much less our present, as evidenced by our constant struggle with our own selves, and everyone else we elect to share and receive with.
for whatever many reasons humanity has eveolved into what it is today, it is perfectly clear to me that as long as we are to remain preoccupied with how we are going to pay into the system(pay our bills, earn money to live and exist, etc.), we will be a species at odds with ourselves and eveyone around, humans and all living creatures alike. perhaps understanding the consumptive nature of things(little fish beign swallowed by a biffer fish, life/death cycle, etc.) requires us to be human first, wherein we can exist in a sort of reality that is neither real or fake, rather it is as we make it.
perhaps when we die as a human, we come back as a dog(or a cat, horse, camel, or any other animal that are directly supported by a human), we are no longer able to cloth ourselves, and having to depend on a human for our food and water, we then understand the basic principals of giving and sharing and being without contempt, hatrid, jealosy yourself, but experiencing it through your human master. as we could either be a poor dog getting kicked around and hunting through garbage cans for food, or be a well cared for dog with a compassionate human being who is a little more aware of life itself ,and its principal dynamics. maybe the conditions we receve when we are born as a dog is a direct result of our actons as we were when a human. perhaps after we die being a dog, we then are born a tiger(or any other animal that need not depend on any contribed creation like humans do(cars, beds, homes, etc.), wherein the life and death cycle is more clearly explained in our state of being. kill or be killed, not out of the human tendencies which are hate, greed, jealosy, and so forth, but out of pure natural instinct, thus being one step closer to understanding the nature of things. when we die a tiger and are born a bird, or a fish, we may then understand the unexplored natral world of the air or the waters. when we die a bird or fish, perhaps we are born an insect, wherein we are the most proned to be smashed or squished from that form. to live an insect would be to experience a life cycle that is based on hours, not years. again, another step closer to understanding the nature of things. perhaps when we die an insect we are born a flower, or a fruit, or a vegtable. we may then experience the essence of life in that respect, and we will grow to understand the sun, the weather, and the earth. perhaps when we die a plant, we are born a tree, wherin we may live for hundreds of years to learn of time and change. perhaps when we die a tree, we are born a rock, to which we then understand patience, and stability, and certainty. perhaps then we are born as fire, or water, or air, or earth. perhaps we are then born of spirit. perhaps after we learn and experience life as it is, not as we attempt to make it as lowly humans, but as it actually is, we will then be born into understanding, wherein we are connected to all of these thigns we have grown to understand. being connected to all the common threads, we may then be born as space, as the very compounds that bind and form all things. perhaps then we may be born of light, wherein we will see everything as it is. perhaps then we may be born as truth, reality, as spirit that dwells in al that ever was, and ever will be. perhaps we will have graduated along the way, starting our initially confusing and otherwise difficult journay as entry level human beings. perhaps anyone that would claim that we, human bengs, are at the top of the food chain, the highest frm of intiligent life, perhaps it is those human beings who are the most ignorant of all life, or life itself.
or, on the flip side, perhaps god has created all of us in his own image, and we are basically gnomes to serve his own entertainment. in our own ignorance we wallow in the mud, create leaders and followers, religions, political boundries, and denouce every other life form as being inferior. we self endulge and look to be the center of the universe, r of the atenton of others. we create things that wll come to pass, and live out little fantisies in our minds such as where we have come from and where we go, and who made us and why. perhaps we havew evolved from the point of our creation as gnomes, or perhaps all have remained the same. perhaps we will continue to know it all and be authorities of evrything and be self proclaimed kings and queens and make our own power sources at the expense of anything and everything. perhaps we will raise our offspring to hate and to focus on those things which are temporary. perhaps perhaps perhaps.
whatever the case, we are here sharing and receiving, and no matter what, we will all think differantly. and that is ok. but it seems not to be ok when other people attempt to FORCE their thoughts on others and try ot MAKE them conform to thier ideals. this seems blatently obvious to me that it simply does not work, and as a result human beings load up their bag with more bricks, of whch they carry that heavy bag through life, filled with hatrid and anger, only to be weighed down with it, causing them to effect/infect people whereever they may venture. would be so hard for each of us to simply accept everyone else, and not tell them how bad or wrong they are? and to simply share informaton and perspective, and not force it? could we look inside of ourselves so that we may understnad our own strengths, so when other people share with us their hatrid, anger, etc., we may understand its place in our own selves, so we need not respond in confusion as a reuslt of the feelings it provikes when others share and when we receive. because as long as we keep repsonding in ignorance to other people's own shortcomings, we continue to ful the already out of control fire that has engulped our planet, our citizens, our thoughts, and our spirits. thus, we end up fighting over super8 instead of sharing and receiving super8.
for me, super8, and everything else in my life is there because it fills a void, it satisfies me in some way. i gain various forms of pleasue and happiness from it. having to earn money and pay bills is not very pleasurable for me, and i do not like to join groups that focus on that area of my life. for it is an area filled with enough hatrid and anger to last several millimiums. alex, you are unique. roger, you are unique. it serves the group no benefit for either of pointing out your shotcomings. it only goes to remind us how much hatrid we have insde our own selves which no doubt needs purging. i beleive hatrid in the moment is natural, perhaps even your survival depends upon it. i do not beleive it is healthy to stock pile it, and continue to support it and feed it for minutes, hours, days, months, and years. it serve no good benefit for anyone, and i think that is pretty much a universal feeling, no matter what your position is in life, or about life. it would be silly to say everyone should and could get along, that would be false and fake, and not real. so why cant it be left ot that simple fact, and not carried around as bricks in our already heavy bags? negative energy is like a virus, or a forest fire ... it spreads quickly and damages everything in its path. but it always comes to end, and then everyon is left to pick up the pieces and start over again. how many times does one have to start over again to realize the negative impace this has on all of our lives? we all seem exceptionaly smart, so why do we repeatedly fall into this obvius trap? my take on it is we are not sure of our own selves when we go and attack others. if we were, we would not need to attakc, what would be the reason? every day i come to understand this in my own bumpy road/life. and every day i am gad there is not another eric, another me in the world. i am glad everyon is differant, because the more i understnad that fact, the more i understand how special i realy am, to myself. because i am one of a kind, and so are each of you, and what you offer to me, and everyone else is so very crucial in my own journy, and it plays such a large part, that if we are not able to find groups that are aiming to reduce ths anger and confusion, we are not improvng upon our own selves, thus we are not reducing the confuson each of us addresses and deal with on a daily basis. i want to know me, the real me, and i will at one point. but that reqires understanding, of all things, for if i do not understand, then how can i enlighting myself from my own confuson?
we are all like circles. we always comes full circle in one form or another. however, each cycle is unlike the last, yet it always follows the same path. visualize dna, and you cna visualize your life in terms of its pattern. we never go off into the randim abyss, never. that would be chaos, and that would prevent memory, of which we all have and maintain. so if we all are going t come full circle, with every aspect of our lives, wy notmake each cycle something to look forward to, and not to dred? if i meet alex or roger, and our circles interect, my circle is running its own course, and theirs are running their own course. but as each opposte circle intersects, there is an overlapping area of those crcles that are running in exact unison(place 2 ciclres side by side, now move them towards each other. when tey make contact, and touch, you wll see that although each circle is going to cycle upward/downward and AWAY fro mthe other circle, that point in which they connect are on the exact same course, no matter how big of small each circle is). now that you have run the same course as another person, and each of your circles have made contact, there is no way to avoid eventually coming full circle again. it make take a lifetime to do so, but it will happen. so if you consider each human being a circle, and your own circle a keyring of sorts, imagine how many circles you have attached to your own! now imaging the size of each of those circles. now image one of those circles as its own keychain, held by the owner of that circle. see the dynamics at play here? no for those people you have constant contact with(wife, kids, family, friends, etc,), you wll notice your connecting circles are much smaller, and mre frequint then those whom you rarly or occasionaly have contact with, or come full circle with. so if you and your wife are with each other all day, everyting you commincate you are running on the same path, both circles aligned, but going their own direction. when you stop sharing/receiving, you are starting to go full circle. now it is when you are going full circle that you realize the IMPORTANCE of the period in which each of you were running the same path, circles intersecting. if you intersected and did so with love, respect, kidness, etc., you will go into the full circle looking forward to your next intersection with that person. if you intersected and did so with anger, hatrid, envy, jealosy, etc., you will go into that full circle with a burdon, because you will not look forward to the fact of when you will have to come fll crcle and intersect with that person again. your thoughts of the negative intersection will preoccupy your posative energy, and you will not make any good thoughts as it relates to that circle. so it is so important we leave each interestion knowing we are not going to have to fear or dred coming full circle with that person in the future. it is so important that at mimimum when you do come full circle with that person, you can do so with dignity ,and with respect for yourself, and for the other person, even if it is just that, and nothing more. you do not have to like the person, or agree with the person, you merely need to have hte self respect to understnad that person. and if that person does not understnad himself, and leaves the interestion with negative regard, those are his rocks in his own bag. as long as you are able to UNDERSTAND what that person ws not able to do on his own, you leave that intersection posative, and with no burdons or rocks in your bag. so you have no preoccupying thoughts of that person while you are going your full circle, and when you intersect with that person again, you do so with the same dignaty as you did when you last left him. that other person is rendered helpless against this, because what you have done is more powerful then any argument or fight or threat or exchange of negative words could ever be. period.
think about the people you truly respect in this world. in your life. then consider how he is while each of your circles are intersected. there is a reason you respect this person, and the reason is because this person respects himself enough to understand those who do not, or those who have less respect and understand then he does. simple as that.
now these are my own feelings, and i obviously wrote them with convction. they work for me and they make sense to me. soem are fact and some are thought. but they are meant to be shared with you, not to tell you or direct you or condem you or preach to you. i am simply sharing my outlook on these matters. it is ok to dissagree with them, and to tell me so. it is ok to do with them as you wish. but understand that i delvied them with kindness and good intentons and no alterior motives other then to share my feelings ad ideals, not with hate or disregard. if you can simply respect this and understand this, and not judge me for it, then you will have my respect and my understanding as it relates to what you communcate to me, or others.
i personally think that if we could just respect and understand everyone for who they are, there would be no distinction between politics, religion, faith, and humanity, and no matter hat e talked about, it would be important, and be based on the things we so desire, and like ... such as super8. but to say we can never talk about anything other then super8 ould be telling us to stop being who we are, and that is really the downside to censorship.
eric martin jarvies
#7 avenido jarvies
pueblo viejo
cabo san lucas, baja california sur. mexico
cp 23410
044 624 141 9661
Mr. Jarvies, I was overwhelmed by the length of your post and I decided not to read it at this time.
What is being lost here is I responded to your post about men and women standing in front of a judge, and I was making the point that I believe the legal system in the United States has created equality for women moreso than any other country.
If others don't agree, that is fine. If they want to explain why they disagree, that is fine also. Instead, there was a lot of anger spewing forth rather than constructive dialogue or a counterviewpoint presented.
Let me clairify one thing here. Many Americans Don't believe their own media and have modified their view of things. But until the President acts as a voice for all people, rather than a puppet of the corporations that donated to his election, we are hardpressed to change.
It may take a full riot in our streets to wake up our idiotic, self-righteous president that he cannot continue to be a puppet of the corporations. But in the meantime, don't forget, it appears there are bad guys in the world who treat women like property, and want to see America obliterated, and these are the same scoundrels who don't share the wealth they have obtained working with America, with their own people.
i can assure you it isn't. how many countries have you lived in, to use your own style of argumentation (number of beta sp decks owned and so on)? have you lived in europe or is it south america and the middle east, or even the media image of those parts of the world you're comparing with?
/matt
Fair enough, I am basing it on only living in the U.S.
and perhaps our treatment of women is based primarily on economics, but when a women can go to court and force change that reverberates through society, it speaks volumes for the rights of people not being tied to their physical stature or monetary place in the world.
In many parts of the world, women are not treated that well.
Lawyers are annoying and scary to most people (includig me), but in their own way, landmark cases create equality for those previously perceived to be weaker.
You know what, Alex, I'm not even angry about the stupidities you say and think cause you're only a sheep. That's why I don't even want to explain to you're wrong on all the line. Now let me ask you a stupid question you might understand : how the hell can you argue, everywhere it has no sens, your country is somewhat like the best place on earth when it doesn't even has a name ?
_______________________________________
"Composing is improvising slower" Bill EVANS
Your arrogant assumption that American has a more enlightened legal system than the rest of the world is unworthy of intelligent response.
You gave no reasons as to why you held this belief other than referring vaguely to a man and woman standing before a judge. You offered no comparisons or legal reasons why it is better.
You ill-thought out views have offended many people on this forum.
As a graduate in Jurisprudence (Law) from Oxford University, I would not make such ignorant statements about the English legal system - as although I know a lot about it, I do not have the in-depth knowledge to make anything but a glib comparison to other legal systems.
People have assumed (rightly in my opinion) that the only thing informing your opinion is a vague and indoctrinated sense of America's superiority.
Your country is a land in which every man is supposedly born free and equal and yet it is a country which maintained slavery and segregation longer than most other Western countries. Any intelligent person would be aware of the contradictions of the American myth. Why do you persist in your unthinking belief in American superiority?
And why do you not have the consideration to keep your superiority complex to yourself and respect all (as everyone else does!) on what is so evidently and international forum? Is this another example of American exceptionalism?
If one considers the right of a woman to manage her own body, then the current abortion situation in the USA suggests they are in reverse. Witch burning next, then the veil.
Maybe the Handmaiden was not far off the mark!
New web site and this is cine page http://www.picsntech.co.uk/cine.html
