New Super 8 cartridge - and Ektachrome 100D from Kodak?

[wado1942]

The thing is, 64T doesn't look like what they had in the 70s. 64T combines all the shortcommings the common super-8 stocks with none of the benefits, even though it's supposed to be a compromise for both K40 and E160. It combines the low speed of K40 with the graininess of E160 and the color rendition of neither. Not to mention it lacks the longevity of K40. Though it IS a little sharper, grain is probably the biggest issue IMHO.

[MIKI-814]

If twenty years ago someone said that Kodak would be making five types of Super 8 film in 2007, everyone would have thought that was a fairytale too...

Absolutely true

[Jim Carlile]

As to 100D being introduced in Super 8 cartridge form, it seems highly unlikely to me. I sell thousands of carts of Super 8 film a year to the general public and professional users here in the UK, and it is my impression that most users out there don't really care what film they're using. They just want some (colour) Cine film which is "like it used to look in the 70s". The opinions of people who post on this forum are those of niche obsessives (I'm not trying to be rude, just making the point - I probably fit into this category myself!) and are not representative of the vast majority of actual users.

Good point about the 100D availability. There are a lot of strikes against Kodak doing this-- the notchless daylight cartridge that will be necessary for 100 ASA means that many cameras won't be able to run it, or with worse results than 64T, and it is a bit too high for bright sunshine. Too much of a hassle for the general user.

The sum of $50,000 mentioned strikes me as a deliberately high figure that has been plucked out of thin air by someone at Kodak in order to discourage Wittner from even considering it.
Bart

What it sounds like to me is that Kodak is willing to do an MTO for this smaller $ amount, perhaps to let someone else test the waters before they commit their own resources. Usually an MTO involves millions of feet of film. This could be their way of pacifying the enthusiast market, without having to take the plunge themselves.

The 64T recall is very interesting. It does seem a little pretextual to me...like an excuse to go out of the business. I wonder what the hell happened over there....

[mr8mm]

Kodak has informed me(June 18. 2007) that Kodak will NOT release 100D in a S8 cartridge. The fairytale can be put to rest.

John S.

[S8 Booster]

now, lets see... Kodak has no competitors (other companies loading it into carts) for the 64T while both Wittner n Spectra? n others loads 100D already.

now, get the total profit picture....?

(K packs negs for professional reasons n no one else packs the "K" BW stuff either)

[Blue Audio Visual]

The long and the short of it is that it makes good copy for Juergen's magazine to dangle these carrots on a stick in front of the noses of credulous readers.

Many Super 8 users are possessed by a disturbingly evangelical fervour for the format. It's a bit like millenarian fundamentalist Christianity: K40 is Jesus, it was sacrificed on the cross because we were sinful. We now live in "the last days" ruled by the Antichrist (64T), but we know that soon K40 will return as 100D ("The Second Coming") to rule supreme for 1000 years. We, the faithful believers who contribute to the forum are "The Elect", the chosen few who kept the faith during the dark years of 64T.

End of rant. Could any other readers provide equivalent analogies from the Muslim/Jewish/Hindu/Rastafarian/Zoroastrian faiths etc. for the sake of cultural inclusivity?

Bart

[Juergen]

The long and the short of it is that it makes good copy for Juergen's magazine to dangle these carrots on a stick in front of the noses of credulous readers.

Bart

Bart,
as you mentioned before: "Like Juergen said at the beginning of the thread, it's a fairytale, and fairytales don't come true (very often!)."

I will ask Wittner if they have heard anything.

Really good copy for my magazine? Only good film stock brings filmers and readers...

[Juergen]

The long and the short of it is that it makes good copy for Juergen's magazine to dangle these carrots on a stick in front of the noses of credulous readers.

Bart

Bart,
as you mentioned before: "Like Juergen said at the beginning of the thread, it's a fairytale, and fairytales don't come true (very often!)."

I will ask Wittner if they have heard anything.

Really good copy for my magazine? Only good film stock brings filmers and readers...

[Juergen]

The long and the short of it is that it makes good copy for Juergen's magazine to dangle these carrots on a stick in front of the noses of credulous readers.

Bart

Bart,
as you mentioned before: "Like Juergen said at the beginning of the thread, it's a fairytale, and fairytales don't come true (very often!)."

I will ask Wittner if they have heard anything.

Really good copy for my magazine? Only good film stock brings filmers and readers...

[Angus]

Well if they've somehow got a huge problem with the latest batch of super 8 64T, they are going to sort that out before they think of any changes/additions/removals from the super 8 portfolio.

I suspect that 64T is selling at least as well as they hoped, the lab situation has pretty much cleared itself up and there's no point in Kodak adding another super 8 product at this time.

[Juergen]

The long and the short of it is that it makes good copy for Juergen's magazine to dangle these carrots on a stick in front of the noses of credulous readers.

Bart

Bart,
as you mentioned before: "Like Juergen said at the beginning of the thread, it's a fairytale, and fairytales don't come true (very often!)."

I will ask Wittner if they have heard anything.

Really good copy for my magazine? Only good film stock brings filmers and readers...

[downix]

Good point about the 100D availability. There are a lot of strikes against Kodak doing this-- the notchless daylight cartridge that will be necessary for 100 ASA means that many cameras won't be able to run it, or with worse results than 64T, and it is a bit too high for bright sunshine. Too much of a hassle for the general user.

Actually, you're wrong here. The issue with 64T is that very few companies allowed for this option when designing their cameras. However, if you flip a 40/160 camera into daylight-cart mode, it becomes a 25/100... and your 100D is metered correctly. I know, I have a 40/160 camera and I use it in just this way for Plus-X 100.

[Jim Carlile]

Straight 40/160 cameras will read a 160-notched daylight cartridge at 160. Unlike SMPTE compatible cameras, they cancel both the filter and the 2/3 stop filter "correction" that enables the camera to meter at an effective 100 ASA. Plus-X is notched for 160 ASA, and I suspect 100D is as well.

If your camera is reading Plus-X or 100D correctly at 100 ASA, then it's not a straight 40/160 camera. What might be happening is that your camera is actually rating the film at 160 ASA, but it still looks good-- it's only 2/3 stop "under" exposed. The loose '40/160' designation refers to the later type 'G' cameras that were designed to be simpler and able to read Ektachrome G film at the correct 160 ASA.

Before this, SMPTE cameras would read the 'new' G film at 100 ASA. That's because the cartridge was notchless and would push in the filter pin, canceling the filter but keeping the + 2/3 stop correction.

SMPTE cameras-- for this same reason-- will also read Tri-X at 100 ASA, unless they can read speed notches above 160. In that case, because Tri-X is notched for 250, the daylight cartridge will push in the filter pin, cancelling the filter but keeping the same + 2/3 stop correction, thus reading Tri-X at an effective 160.

It makes more sense for Kodak to offer 64T, because more cameras can get acceptable results from it than from 100D. A great many S8 cameras-- meaning most made after about 1972 or so-- can only read at an effective 100 ASA with the 85 filter in place. That ruins 100 ASA daylight film.

It would be nice to have 100D, but Kodak knew what they were doing by offering 64 Tungsten instead.

[MIKI-814]

Straight 40/160 cameras will read a 160-notched daylight cartridge at 160. Unlike SMPTE compatible cameras, they cancel both the filter and the 2/3 stop filter "correction" that enables the camera to meter at an effective 100 ASA. Plus-X is notched for 160 ASA, and I suspect 100D is as well.

I'm lost... in a Canon 814AZ-E, what should I do to shoot correctly a Plux-x? and Tri-x? Cancel the filter or not? And what about in a Canon 310XL?

[wado1942]

The 814E should be able to read PlusX properly as well as 100D and 64T.
Pay your camera a visit at http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/came ... index.html
Of course if you'd use an external light meter, you don't even have to worry about what the camera thinks. The camera doesn't know what it's shooting anyways but you do. So you can get a better exposure than the camera can.