Building a new Super 8 camera--the toaster project?

[etimh]

Hey marc,

Yeah, I certainly have nothing against "capitalism" in theory, or in practice within the context of a compassionately benevolent social order. But that doesn't mean it should be immune from critical analysis and discussion, and, when its institutions and mechanisms are abused it absolutely should be creatively questioned and when necessary, confronted.

I actually agree with most of what you say and always enjoy reading your perspectives. Keep 'em coming.

Tim

[Lunar07]

Lunar07,you have some serious anger issues to work out.

No marc, I have no serious anger issues. I was actually having fun with this whole thing! So, there is no need for this patronizing attitude 8)

[RenFra]

@etimh After about 50 years of experience in small gauge filming and with today's knowledge of hardware and firmware of any kind, we really could construct a super S8 camera, that surpasses anything we have seen in the 60's and 70's.
The partial revival of Super-8 filming shows that many people like to use a camera as it allows them to film in a rather classic way. So why not construct a 21st century S8-camera?
Or is this a topic for another thread?

[granfer]

Before I start, this is NOT a "knocking" post (I have been accused of doing that on other threads, although only when justified), it is a serious comment.

[quote="RenFra"]..... we really could construct a super S8 camera, that surpasses anything we have seen in the 60's and 70's.
The partial revival of Super-8 filming shows that many people like to use a camera as it allows them to film in a rather classic way. So why not construct a 21st century S8-camera?
....../quote]

True, but let's bear in mind that for any manufacturer to indulge in the research, development and tooling required to manufacture a new design, he would need to know that there are enough "serious enthusiasts" out there to buy his cameras in sufficient quantities to make it not only economical, but also profitable. That's a fact of life.

Further, since the inherent reliability of the Super 8 cartridge as it is currently designed is not of the best, any "serious enthusiast" would require either a new. totally reliable, Cartridge design, or require the camera to be spool loading with S8 or DS8 stock. This would involve Cartridge and Stock manufacturers having to be 100% sure of the ONGOING commitment of the "serious enthusiasts". That also is a fact of life.

Unfortunately, the Consumer is notoriously fickle.

Attempts have been made in recent years to introduce a brand new design of Super 8 projector for the very large (world-wide) Film Collecting fraternity. It failed miserably, not for lack of interest, but for the sheer cost of the new machines. Collectors were not "committed" enough to be prepared to spend the sum needed when there were older machines in excellent working order still around.
I fear the same would be true of cameras.
I would dearly love to see an all singing, all dancing top of the range camera (not that I could afford to shoot Super 8 ever again), but I don't think it practicable, purely from the economic point of view.

[etimh]

After about 50 years of experience...

I absolutely have no doubt that it could be done, and I would be happy and excited to see it happen. This topic has been brought up endlessly in many different threads (and is still being discussed somewhere) and I am always interested in following along with the conversation and considering the many great ideas people propose.

I posted the link to the toaster project article just to provide a real-life tangible example of an exercise that in many ways would be analagous to trying to build a super 8 camera from scratch. Of course, with modern technology and knowledge, pre-fab materials and electronics, and efficient manufacturing and production we would see the process made much simpler and perhaps successful.

But all of granfer's observations and warnings remain true--it would probably too risky as a business endeavor for an established manufacturer to take on, and though a small garage experimenter and builder could probably pull off a prototype or two, well, look to the toaster project.

Tim

[RenFra]

Tim, I totally agree with you.
You know that Hewlett Packard made very good and functional calculators. There have been and still are specimens that do their job after 40 years. HP-adepts recently thought: now they will make the ultimate calculator with a combination of financial, scientific and graphical properties or qualities. But as a calculator is a digital device, so a smartphone could even do better as a calculator and it certainly can combine calculator qualities with a lot of other desired things.
But for the time being I do not want to compare calculators with cameras. Nobody wants to work with an analogue calculator, though they really exist.
What I see with our good old filmcamera of e.g. Leica (Leicina), Nikon, Canon, Nizo, Paillard Bolex, is different from the calculator-story. If you could combine the best of Leicina, Nikon, Canon, Nizo, Paillard Bolex (make your choice, or better, take from each its best quality) and remodel or remould it to a new 21st century camera (with a not too complex cpu or flashable programmable controlling device) then I would participate in the project.

[Patrick]

I posted the link to the toaster project article just to provide a real-life tangible example of an exercise that in many ways would be analagous to trying to build a super 8 camera from scratch. Tim

I think the market for a toaster would be somewhat large than the market for a new super 8 camera!

[Angus]

30 years ago the mechanical parts would have been (relatively) easy to source or have manufactured...and the electronics would have cost an arm and a leg.


Today you could buy a programmable chip and write the software yourself to control all functions of a super 8 camera for a very small price....but try finding someone to machine all the mechanical parts to the required quality!

Time changes.

[Andreas Wideroe]

Angus, actually getting things machined isn't so hard afterall - if you know the right person.

I know someone who can get anything (film related) machined out. Today CNC machines do a great job and there are other techniques for tiny parts. Heck, you could even buy your own CNC machine and mill and start the production!

/Andreas