200t more jams...

[S8 Booster]

So they mostly (or all?) jammed in your Beaulieu?

yeah, out of the first 10, five jammed in two different beaulieus (7008 and 6008 pro)..

after that i did the voodoo trick and didnt have any jams anymore
++ christoph ++

or, you may simply pick the right bulletproof cam for the job ;)


earlier posts on bad cartridges:

8O
As I confirmed long ago in a similar thread,my Russian Quartz takes no prisoners and storms through recognised jittery batch numbered cartridges.My Nizo hates them!

The Kinoflex camera (sold here in the UK as the Quartz) is a tough and reliable camera.Good lens and zoom range,simple to operate and gives rock steady pictures.I know,I own one.

Well personally I never had any problem with jittery carts in my Quartz,built like a brick shithouse,clockwork camera.It just storms through them.However on the Nizo...................................
Still,theres always good old Standard eight where this phenomena just does not exist.

My limited experience with the jittery cartridges have shown to me that only my Russian tank wind-up can handle them with some certainty. My Nikon and Sankyo cameras were not up to the task, even my cherished Nizo.

I have always wondered about the common complaints about the 7240 being so unsharp. In 16mm it can look pretty good. So much so it looks better than Kodachrome when transferred to video. Of course, that is what it was made for in the first place. Maybe this pressure plate can bring about a new appreciation for 7240 and the different pallette it provides? Love to see anyone's result with it using the pressure plate.

David M. Leugers

I just shot two cartridges of Kodachrome 40 S-8mm in my Russian Quartz clockwork camera. The film absolutely glided through the camera. I think the newer cartridges are much quieter and smoother running than even the steady cartridges of old. BTW, I found it to be great fun filming with this simple windup camera and the images are terrific. Many of us can get too worked up over all the gadgets a S-8mm camera can have. Sometimes simpler is better, lets you concentrate on the image and nothing else.

David M. Leugers

woopppsss did i bump the value of the Quatz/Kinofelxes now?..... 8)

[paul]

I've got open conversation started with the head tech at kodak right now. (follow up to happen early this week)...

Good, I am curious about the results.

I checked my carts, they are packed in the yellow foiles and not the white ones Christoph was talking about earlier. They are all produced in France. I hope that will help not having problems.

Paul

[Mitch Perkins]

Hi Mitch

I will be using a nizo 6080. Mainly because of dialogue.

I have a Nikon R10 as well. Dialogues will be recorded outside. So you recomment the Nikon?

Paul

I'm sure the 6080 will be fine - I was just surprised to see that take-up ran off a belt and not a worm gear.

Camera noise is certainly less of an issue outdoors, especially on city streets - it might be more noticeable in a quiet park.

I'd say start with your camera of first choice and only switch if problems arise.

Happy shooting!

Mitch

[Jim Carlile]

What temperature are these jammed cartridges being used at? My suspicion is that non-warm temperatures wreak havoc with thick film in tiny cassettes. I've noticed that most of the complaints come from cold climes...

[Justin Lovell]

What temperature are these jammed cartridges being used at? My suspicion is that non-warm temperatures wreak havoc with thick film in tiny cassettes. I've noticed that most of the complaints come from cold climes...

Sorry, your suspicion is wrong. I was in Toronto, on a nice sunny day!

Spoke with kodak tech rep in Toronto. All the are going to do is offer replacement carts. They will send the faulty carts back to Rochester for inspection.

Spoke with the rep for about 30 mins about my cartridge jamming problems and at the end of the conversation he asked me, "so this is super 8 you are talking about or is it 16mm?"

I also have to BUY the replacement carts, then they will credit me back the money.

[Mitch Perkins]

What temperature are these jammed cartridges being used at? My suspicion is that non-warm temperatures wreak havoc with thick film in tiny cassettes. I've noticed that most of the complaints come from cold climes...

Sorry, your suspicion is wrong. I was in Toronto, on a nice sunny day!

Let's be fair - a theory is not tested only once. Whereas your jitter problem was not related to ambient temperature/humidity, these factors could still account for the problems encountered by others. I.E., the suspicion itself is not proven wrong.

Spoke with kodak tech rep in Toronto. All the are going to do is offer replacement carts. They will send the faulty carts back to Rochester for inspection.

Frustrating, but one wonders what else they could do.

Mitch

[Justin Lovell]

..true enough his theory should be tested more than once. My 6 results in warm temps using 40 cartridges is not enough to boast that claim. Someone else should go shoot another 40 carts in cold temps and give their results. ;)

Oh and Mitch, I was just talking with Seb over at the lab, and he has made a few changes, running the machine a little slower on neg seems to reduce the number of speckles that have been riddling the footage. Though it may have the effect of pushing the film 1/2 stop to a stop (which we'll have to correct for in the transfer).

[christoph]

..true enough his theory should be tested more than once. My 6 results in warm temps using 40 cartridges is not enough to boast that claim. Someone else should go shoot another 40 carts in cold temps and give their results. ;)

the charts i shot were under perfectly normal weather condition.. like 20deg C, light sunshine..
maybe they only work if frozen? ;)

Oh and Mitch, I was just talking with Seb over at the lab, and he has made a few changes, running the machine a little slower on neg seems to reduce the number of speckles that have been riddling the footage. Though it may have the effect of pushing the film 1/2 stop to a stop (which we'll have to correct for in the transfer).

pushing the neg a stop to get rid of the speckles sounds like a rather stupid idea to me, unless you like bigger grain and increased contrast for effect.
one could try to lower the temperature at the same time, but that risks to introduce color shifts (which, you know, you'll have to correct in transfer ;)

++ christoph ++

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

I just transferred 7 carts of 200T for a swedish client, he used a newly serviced (Bjorn Andersson) Beaulieu 4008. I didn´t hear anything about carts jamming, but...

At least 2 of the carts had pretty bad registration problems. Very jumpy images, and very jumpy framlines. The rest loked good on the registration I think.

I wonder if it was the carts? A newly serviced camera should not have registration problems...


Sad about the Kodak only replacing the carts, but I guess that was expected (at least I didn´t expect for them to pay for camera repair).

[Justin Lovell]

pushing the neg a stop to get rid of the speckles sounds like a rather stupid idea to me, unless you like bigger grain and increased contrast for effect.
one could try to lower the temperature at the same time, but that risks to introduce color shifts (which, you know, you'll have to correct in transfer ;)

++ christoph ++

It seems to give the film a longer chance in the wash bath or whatever it is that its doing so as to clean the speckles off better.

dunno how it works, but it seems to be working.

[Mitch Perkins]

..true enough his theory should be tested more than once. My 6 results in warm temps using 40 cartridges is not enough to boast that claim.

A million results in warm temperature would say nothing about the effects (if any) of non-warm temperature on film transport stability in Super 8 cartridges.

A suspicion that "non-warm temperatures wreak havoc with thick film in tiny cassettes" would have to be checked in non-warm temperatures. Suspecting one possible factor does not rule out the effects of other factors.

Whereas your jitter problem was not related to ambient temperature/humidity, these factors could still account for the problems encountered by others. I.E., the suspicion itself is not proven wrong.

Mitch

[Jim Carlile]

It depends upon what you mean by "warm" weather. I think warm in Toronto or G.B. means something different than warm in L.A.

In my experience, anything below about 78 degrees and my films chatter alot more than when it's hot. Cameras, too. Here in L.A., on a nice hot day, old cameras smooth out and sound brand new. The difference is startling. Film also softens a little and that no doubt makes it easier to run.

[ccortez]

pushing the neg a stop to get rid of the speckles sounds like a rather stupid idea to me, unless you like bigger grain and increased contrast for effect.
one could try to lower the temperature at the same time, but that risks to introduce color shifts (which, you know, you'll have to correct in transfer ;)

++ christoph ++

It seems to give the film a longer chance in the wash bath or whatever it is that its doing so as to clean the speckles off better.

dunno how it works, but it seems to be working.

Well, it's the longer chance in the *other* baths that is concerning... ;)

[Mitch Perkins]

pushing the neg a stop to get rid of the speckles sounds like a rather stupid idea to me, unless you like bigger grain and increased contrast for effect.
one could try to lower the temperature at the same time, but that risks to introduce color shifts (which, you know, you'll have to correct in transfer ;)

++ christoph ++

It seems to give the film a longer chance in the wash bath or whatever it is that its doing so as to clean the speckles off better.

dunno how it works, but it seems to be working.

Well, it's the longer chance in the *other* baths that is concerning... ;)

I just spoke with Sebastian at Niagara Custom Lab.

There is no push or colour shift resulting from his newly adjusted procedure. Confirming what I remember from processing reversal at Exclusive some years ago - reducing speed (=time in baths) OR increasing temperature results in a push process. Reducing BOTH within certain parameters has no such effect. Most processing machines in Canada were designed for 16mm. Sebastian has assured me he made modifications to his machine to optimize performance with Super 8. He also had Kodak reps down to check his results, and performed all the necessary tests.

The adjustment in question was made at NCL about 1 month ago, during which time I shot and xferred about 20 rolls of negs for weddings. There were no white speckles. I have found that the negs are particularly susceptible to dust accumulation, and basically scratch if you look at them sideways. The only solution to the problem I have found works is to run negs through the Iso soaked pads just prior to the gate.

Mitch

[Mitch Perkins]

It depends upon what you mean by "warm" weather. I think warm in Toronto or G.B. means something different than warm in L.A.

Oh man, you got that right! ~:?(

I want to go to L.A.

In my experience, anything below about 78 degrees and my films chatter alot more than when it's hot. Cameras, too. Here in L.A., on a nice hot day, old cameras smooth out and sound brand new. The difference is startling. Film also softens a little and that no doubt makes it easier to run.

Makes sense if it's an issue of the take-up clutch slipping too easily, as I have suggested before - warmer temps would cause the rubber to stick better, requiring more (the intended amount) resistance to take-up before the clutch slips. Almost anything mechanical runs smoother when warmed up. In warmer temps, the vacuum system on our '79 GP performs better (smoother idling at red lights), and that left front tire no longer has a slow leak! ~:?)

You can just imagine the effect that insufficient take-up would have on these carts, and it's clear that the rubber components of these old cameras are drying out and failing, as evidenced by failing manual exposure on Canon 814/1014 AZ, which relies on friction produced by rubber against metal.

Mitch