Is film archaic / about to die soon?

[twotoneska]

Most cinematographers have said that learning on film puts you light years ahead of people who learn on digital. I would say this is true for directing, as well. It makes you think about what you want, instead of just shooting endless hours of tape. Learning to edit on film gave me a whole new perspective on editing, as well. If you've never edited on a bench or flatbed, do it sometime. It's a whole different ball game, and, in my opinion, a lot more fun.

It could die, in the next ten to twenty years, but don't count on it. Like Angus said, vinyl will outlive C.D.'s. In another ten years, C.D.'s will most likely be replaced by online sales, and record stores will most likely go back to selling records (and blank CD-R's to burn your weekly iTunes binge). Beta is all but gone, and I believe mister digital himself (Lucas) swore Beta would bury film. That was twenty years ago. And I can tell you that most of the people I know, even with all of the advancements into HD, have not been impressed by the new Star Wars films (though Sin City did look kind of cool).

[hellesdonfilms]

hellesdonfilms wrote:
One advantage film has over any electronic media IMHO is that it is future proof.


Sometimes...

But I have to admit:
This weekend, I transfered a 1958 R8 reel.
Mostly B/W.. begins to fade.. or not 100% exposed.

But in the middle of this reel: a few realy wonderful color scenes.
Like if it was yesterday... I could almost smell the grass and the hay..

Filmed 48 years ago.

Fred.

What I meant by "future proof" for example is how TV companies often use film because they can sell their product to any country in the world, whatever TV standard that country uses, giving it a longer shelf life. Although I think film is on the decline it will still be a while before every cinema on the planet will be digital.

No one can predict the future but I would ask the Cinematographer what medium he personally prefers and let that be my guide.

[studiocarter]

I'm a teacher, too, an Art teacher gone into film.

I just bought a Regular 8mm camera on ebay but it came to me as a dud. It didn't work at all. However, my brother in law likes to take things apart and fix them so he got it running in a few minutes. It runs smoothly now for over 45 seconds then stops on a dime never slowing down. John Schwind sells film for it and Dwayne's processes the Kodachrome. Mr. Nowill in England perfs other stocks. I make the cameras and technology available to students and teachers. It is great for animation. So, send me your old cameras if you are 'upgrading' to digital and we'll make use of the stuff to keep kids in school with neat things to do.

[flatwood]

......Most cinematographers have said that learning on film puts you light years ahead of people who learn on digital. I would say.....

That said, and I tend to agree with you, this applies to all media as well. I think it gives me a leg up editing both digital video and audio too as well as shooting and recording. In the old days (seems strange that the old days were just a couple of decades ago) you had to cut to edit (both film and analog audio).

[mattias]

Most cinematographers have said that learning on film puts you light years ahead of people who learn on digital. I would say this is true for directing, as well. It makes you think about what you want, instead of just shooting endless hours of tape.

for some people, sure, but there are several directors who came out of the shooting endless hours school who are great. it depends on who you are and how you work.

Learning to edit on film gave me a whole new perspective on editing, as well. If you've never edited on a bench or flatbed, do it sometime. It's a whole different ball game, and, in my opinion, a lot more fun.

agreed. that's how i learned too. if i were to do it again though i'd probably get an assistant. i hate the keeping track and organizing footage work.

/matt

[audadvnc]

Like he said ... If all you've done is film, you owe it to yourself to learn and master the video production chain - and vice versa. It's important to have both perspectives to grow in experience (and to find work in the future).

Back a .. few ... years ago (egads!) my film school instructor chased us true believers out of the class, telling us to learn some video production before we spent another couple thou on film projects. His advice was sound; I love film but also love and have made money doing video. "And Ah Qwalify as a Real Good Video Per-feshunal! Ah kin even spell IRE!"

They both work.

[Patrick]

HD certainly seems like a threat to film production in television. I have seen US tv shows shot on HD and they look amazingly good in terms of quality, blowing away all other pro video formats like Betacam and rivalling the look of film produced shows. Indeed, well over a year ago someone on this very board once saw a comparison of HD originated footage side by side with 35mm originated material transferred to HD and the guy couldn't tell the difference. After reading all of this, you would think that film use in television would surely be doomed.

However, the reality of the situation is that film is still in considerable use in television production. Think of all the tv shows, wildife documentaries, music video clips and ads that are shot on film to this very day. Hence, there must still be valid reasons for continuing to shoot film, despite the quality of High Definition on the small screen.

[Mitch Perkins]

Does anyone here really think that more film will be shot next year than this year and that the use of digital is in decline?

Roger

Good point. Still, one needs to take into account, in the case of TV, the declining content quality, (reality TV), which doesn't require any sort of good-looking capture medium. Maybe folks will tire of this slop, though it's hard to even hope so...
For theatrically released features, it seems folks can still tell the difference, and films will be captured on DV if the "conceit" suggests it (Blair Witch). But who knows?

Meanwhile Monsanto, Haliburton and such may put this consideration *far* in the background. ~:?)

Mitch

[John_Pytlak]

2005 was the best year ever for motion picture FILM, with well over 10 BILLION feet of motion picture film used around the world. There are nearly 1000 Digital Cinema screens, but over 100,000 theatre screens showing 35mm FILM prints. The vast majority of feature film and television drama shows originate on FILM.

Yet over half of Kodak's revenue now comes from digital imaging products and services. Kodak Laser Pacific provided the transfer, mastering and data delivery for over 170 Digital Cinema sites worldwide for Mission Impossible 3. Kodak digital projection systems are used on over 2000 screens, primarily for preshow entertainment. Kodak offers "the best of both worlds".

From my perspective, learn to use both media well, and take advantage of all the "hybrid" opportunities like Digital Intermediate. What you shoot on film today is indeed "future proof", as there will always be a way to transfer film images to whatever display technology exists in the future. It's not an "either-or" situation, it's added opportunity for the filmmaker. And today, film offers superior image quality that filmmakers appreciate.

[reflex]

Not this semester i'm afraid, my union's on strike! Hope you ain't in the UK and this guy's not a scab?

[Rant deleted.]

Using students as political pawns has a nasty way of backfiring.

[Angus]

Any time I hear/read the words "union" and "scab" in the same sentence.....I turn off...

[Mitch Perkins]

Hello everyone,

I've been camera assisting on a Super 16 student shoot lately. A professional cinematographer (who's been supervising us) said that digital is the future, and that young people like us should be learning digital, and not film. That film was archaic and had no future.

Do you agree?
I feel rather depressed now....

If he specifically used the word, "archaic", he is unequivocally *wrong* -

http://www.google.ca/search?client=fire ... gle+Search

Definitions of archaic on the Web:

* pertaining to a relatively simple period in the development of a particular region's art.

* indicates a word or sense that may be in current use, but rare, and generally sounds old-fashioned.

* old-fashioned or no longer used; writers sometimes use archaic words if they are setting a text in a previous age and wish to create an illusion of authenticity

* adj. ancient or old-fashioned, and banished from the vocabulary of common speech. For example, "Thou art" is an archaic form or "you are."

-------------------

If he specifically said film has "no future", he is unequivocally *wrong* -

Film may have a limited future, and only time will tell. Meanwhile it is in wide use, is widely recognized as having superior imaging qualties, and isn't going away anytime "soon".

So don't cry - keep on using the best and most beautiful medium to bring your ideas to life.

Mitch

[Mogzy]

Any time I hear/read the words "union" and "scab" in the same sentence.....I turn off...

Oh I know! That said the protests make for interesting shooting- plenty of motion and different perspectives/ angles to practice with!

I'm a student and there was a protest at our Uni this week (Liverpool) which I managed to capture on 64T bought in Jessops on a whim and using a Sankyo CME 1100 shooting auto-exposure with 2/3 stop adjustment using the EE lighten/darken function.

[jaxshooter]

If film dies tomorrow, which it won't, but if it did, you will not have wasted a thing by learning film.In fact,the basics of film,depth of filed, focus,composition,lighting,all of these things transfer over to the digital world.I've known some computer whiz kid types who have botched up some digital pics and come to me and ask what went wrong.They're all about looking into pixel size or something else "digital" when their problems are on the camera end.They shot at too slow of a shutter speed and wondered why their pictures were blurry or they used a flash too close to the subject and wondered why their pictures were washed out.These are all basics learned from film photography that transfer over to digital.

I'll save you the trouble here, having shot both.Here's what you need to add on to your "digital" training...remember to white balance.

Now just send your check to......

[T-Scan]

The digital boom has generated a lot of people shooting in digital that would otherwise be shooting nothing. And eventually (or already) the bandwagoneers are going to be looking for ways to be different from each other. Some will find S8 and 16mm as their escape.