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tlatosmd
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Post by tlatosmd »

Arislan wrote:Would you say Ektachrome 7240 is overall better than 64T?
There we go with my notion again, 64T would have been a nice replacement for VNF, but definitely not for K40.

Mattias, there have been many people in disagreement to you and Nigel already on 64T's supposed sharpness, including Jürgen, Frank Bruinsma, all the people at the national French S8 meeting that Jürgen visited, and Kodak's own data sheets (thanks to Booster for that one). In fact, 64T is less sharp than K40 as suggested by Kodak's data sheets, it only starts to equal K40 not sooner than with so little light on the set you won't be able to expose K40 anymore. What's worse, 64T's tremendous grain is even multi-colored like nasty video noise.

The only two technical advantages 64T has over K40 are speed and latitude, the latter resulting in more shadow detail, which in connection with its far more pronounced grain seems to make some people think it would be 'sharper' than K40.

Kodak promised us replacing K40 with a more modern and technically more professional emulsion due its professional ASA number, helping S8 to get rid of its 1970s homemovie image, and instead gave us what looks much more vintage, amateurish, and homemovie-like at the end of the day, when the processed film is flickering across the screen. Before we saw its first S8 stills, you and Nigel kept complaining time and again about K40s 'unnatural', 'vintage', 'over-saturated' colors, but when we saw 64T is even much, much more saturated than K40, you started saying that that was what you'd always longed for and that you'd always hated K40 for its 'unnatural, bleak' color. After we confronted you with your older statements, you went on to speak of 'sharpness'.

Arislan, several international protesting petitions have been started quite succesfully about Kodak's decision of axing K40 in favor of 64T, but Kodak didn't seem to care.
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mattias
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Post by mattias »

tlatosmd wrote:In fact, 64T is less sharp than K40 as suggested by Kodak's data sheets
not the way i read them, and believe me i know how to. and who cares about what something replaces or not anyway?

/matt
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Post by mattias »

tlatosmd wrote:The only two technical advantages 64T has over K40 are speed and latitude, the latter resulting in more shadow detail, which in connection with its far more pronounced grain seems to make some people think it would be 'sharper' than K40.
and why exactly would that be a false notion?

/matt
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Post by Dr_Strange_Love »

If you guys love kodachrome that much, move on to 16mm, it'll be around for a while.
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T-Scan
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Post by T-Scan »

The only two technical advantages 64T has over K40 are speed and latitude, the latter resulting in more shadow detail, which in connection with its far more pronounced grain seems to make some people think it would be 'sharper' than K40.
You forgot color, the colors are way better... I showed some 64T last night.. people commented about how awsome the colors we're, but grain was not an issue. A lot of the 64T bashing seems to come from people who haven't even shot it yet, or shot it correctly.
100D and Vision 3 please
tlatosmd
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Post by tlatosmd »

T-Scan wrote:
The only two technical advantages 64T has over K40 are speed and latitude, the latter resulting in more shadow detail, which in connection with its far more pronounced grain seems to make some people think it would be 'sharper' than K40.
You forgot color, the colors are way better... I showed some 64T last night.. people commented about how awsome the colors we're, but grain was not an issue. A lot of the 64T bashing seems to come from people who haven't even shot it yet, or shot it correctly.
Oh no, I didn't:
I wrote:Kodak promised us replacing K40 with a more modern and technically more professional emulsion due its professional ASA number, helping S8 to get rid of its 1970s homemovie image, and instead gave us what looks much more vintage, amateurish, and homemovie-like at the end of the day, when the processed film is flickering across the screen. Before we saw its first S8 stills, you and Nigel kept complaining time and again about K40s 'unnatural', 'vintage', 'over-saturated' colors, but when we saw 64T is even much, much more saturated than K40, you started saying that that was what you'd always longed for and that you'd always hated K40 for its 'unnatural, bleak' color. After we confronted you with your older statements, you went on to speak of 'sharpness'.
"Mama don't take my Kodachrome away!" -
Paul Simon

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T-Scan
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Post by T-Scan »

64T IS more modern looking than K40, and I like it better for that reason. The extra grain doesn't bother me, you can hardly tell the difference when projecting. I agree Kodak could have done better with 100D, but it seems a tungston film was preferred.
100D and Vision 3 please
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Post by Jon »

I tryed to project my 64t but my bulb blew out ill have to get a new one and try seeing how it looks I still yet to do test out side the weather here has'nt been to good mosly cold and overcast ill wait for a sunny day and try I like 16mm to but i was hoping for a good stock for home movies of my kids I shot some video christmas morning to it looks ok i still think film is the best image mybe ill try v2-200t indoors the only problem is i can't tranfer it my self
I Did talk to stan at kodak and he say that whats avalibale for now

I think there more intristed in the producing the negtive stocks afer all it is the newest tecnolagy if you noctice there discontinuing alote of the older stocks and the vision 2 is replacing it. anyway just athought, I do think kodak is doing a good job they making super 8 avalible, Ill have to some test on the super 8 negs I do wedding videos and im thinking of doing them on film thinking 16mm Shooting 16 vs 8 the cost differents is that much when shooting negitive

Thanks for your coments

Maybe im to picky The color were good though
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audadvnc
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Post by audadvnc »

if you notice there discontinuing alot of the older stocks ...
Just think, in the old days Kodak provided exactly one color negative stock - 7247. Nowadays they advertise 10 negative and 2 reversal color stocks in their current inventory, and you can buy about a half dozen other recently discontinued ones. Or you can buy one of the Fuji films. These are the good old days for motion picture stocks.
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Post by Arislan »

audadvnc wrote:These are the good old days for motion picture stocks.
No these are the bad days when Kodachrome 40 was discontinued. The "good old days" will start when a better stock takes over.
Have you dropped your film at Walmart yet?
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Post by T-Scan »

The "good old days" will start when a better stock takes over.


100D is just sitting in the driveway, but it seems that no one can see it because the K40 tears have swollen their eye lids.
100D and Vision 3 please
Arislan
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Post by Arislan »

Well, someone better drive it in then before my house gets flooded by my tears...
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T-Scan
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Post by T-Scan »

Arislan wrote:Well, someone better drive it in then before my house gets flooded by my tears...
If there was enough interest and support, but all the attention is focused on the loss of K40, or the grain of 64T. people have to look at the facts and be realistic...

Is K40 coming back in Super 8? NO

Would Ektachrome 100D look better and out perform K40 in almost every department? YES

The only thing K40 has over 64T is slightly finer grain, but not finer than 100D.
100D and Vision 3 please
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freddiesykes
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Post by freddiesykes »

It's gone. Get over it.
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Post by sarmoti »

I wonder if the people having issues with 64T are exposing it correctly. Although 99% of what I shoot is neg stock, I did tests with reversal not too long ago. I shot Macbeth charts, MTF (lens) tests and others. I found 64T to be significantly better than K40 in all aspects except for grain. Lattitude, shadow detail, resolving power and color accuracy were all better than K40 both in projection and telecine. At least those are my results. Notice I said color accuracy, K40 has overly saturated colors that gives it is look but 64T is more accurate according to color test charts.
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