Auction sniping software not effective anymore?

[ccortez]

An auction is a very fair market.

A very good solution would be to actually continue the auction for three more minutes for each bid that is placed within the last three minutes! Hell that would solve it all!

Why? Neither live auctions nor closed or open bid silent auctions nor any online auction I know of are conducted that way.

At least one online auction I have used has almost exactly that rule in place (ebid was it?). Other online auctions certainly have different processes than ebay, and closed/open/silent auctions are all over the place WRT what happens with no bids, late bids, etc.

That said, I'm amazed people thing there's anything unfair about how ebay currently works. Amazed.

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

Actually the perfect answer for Monobaths "Why?" (as in why a auction would be extended if someone places a bid during the last 3 minutes of the auction time). would be:

Why not? ;)

It would take the sniping and snatching out of the game and everyone would get the items for whatever the REAL highest price would be, after all maximum bids and late bids have had their chance to get the item. And the one who wanted to pay the REAL highest price would win the auction.

Perhaps even the schilling would seem less interesting to some. I mean if they knew the item would actually sell for whatever anyone is willing to pay for it, not for a price to whoever had the most effective sniping software setttings. ;)

[monobath]

But that is exactly how sniping software works in conjunction with Ebay proxy bidding. Everyone who uses sniping software decides in advance how much they are willing to spend.

Nope, big difference. No hiding in the bushes or hoping that someone will miss a bid in the last second of the auction. ;)

Believe it or not but people are actually using plain "single bids" when they want to buy something.

Lets say a guy place a plain old bid, $100. OK, I am the winner, nobody else is bidding, I will win this, great! The last seconds are ticking away and a sniping software wins the auction for $105. No fun for the guy hoping to get the item for $100 or something like that, nobody else was bidding so he thought he would win...

Same scenario, he places a bid: $100. OK. good, he is the winner so far, 3 days before the auction ends someone bids over him, so he tops the bid, is overbid, now he bids $150, he is immediately overbid and bids $170. Now he is the winner again because the opponent only wanted to pay $165 for the item. The auction ends and he is the winner (or he would have been the loser if he didn´t want to outbid the guy placing the Ebay maximum bid, he had the chance to do it but chose not to).

See the difference here? Or do you still think it is exactly the same?

The difference I see is that a rational bidder takes into account the reality of the game he is engaging in. A gambler enjoys risks and is willing to accept a measure of chance or luck in exchange for the excitement of the game and the potential of a cheap score. An irrational person fails to appreciate the reality of the game he is playing, and relies on cognitive distortions such as superoptimism (magical thinking) to guide his behavior.

Question. Was the bidder willing to pay $100 for the item, or was he willing to pay $170 for the item? If $170, why did he only bid $100 to start? Remember that the terms of the auction involve proxy bidding, and there is no way around this. Could it be that he was hoping to get the item for as little as possible, but would have spent up to $170 if necessary? If so, then why not bid $170 at the end. The outcome will be the same if he wins. He'll get the item for the lowest possible price that does not exceed the maximum he is willing to spend. Of course, if he is not sure what he is willing to spend, that is a different matter. He probably shouldn't be in the game.

[ccortez]

Lets say a guy place a plain old bid, $100. OK, I am the winner, nobody else is bidding, I will win this, great! The last seconds are ticking away and a sniping software wins the auction for $105. No fun for the guy hoping to get the item for $100 or something like that, nobody else was bidding so he thought he would win...

If he thought the item was worth more than $100, he can only blame himself for underbidding. If he thinks the item is worth less than $105, he bid correctly and should be happy. In either case, the market functioned perfectly.

Same scenario, he places a bid: $100. OK. good, he is the winner so far, 3 days before the auction ends someone bids over him, so he tops the bid, is overbid, now he bids $150, he is immediately overbid and bids $170. Now he is the winner again because the opponent only wanted to pay $165 for the item. The auction ends and he is the winner (or he would have been the loser if he didn´t want to outbid the guy placing the Ebay maximum bid, he had the chance to do it but chose not to).

Exactly the same case. His real bid was $170. Why did he place the bid in increments starting at $100 if he really thought the item was worth $170?

See the difference here? Or do you still think it is exactly the same?

Same... My question is, why isn't the guy using sniping software? ;)

EDIT: Consider this case, which I believe is monobath's example: The starting price of a given item is $100. I am willing to pay $150, so I make a proxy bid on day one of $150, which puts my initial bid at $100. At the very last second, with $100 showing, somebody's sniper software puts in a bid for $145. I still win. IMHO, there is never a good reason to use what you describe as a "plain old bid" of $100 on an item you are willing to pay $150 for when proxy bidding is not only available on ebay, but standard behavior.

What's the main reason I use sniping software? I don't like watching auctions, and I don't like planning my life around their end time. If I just called it "bidding software" I bet it wouldn't provoke such a reaction.

[monobath]

A very good solution would be to actually continue the auction for three more minutes for each bid that is placed within the last three minutes! Hell that would solve it all!

Why? Neither live auctions nor closed or open bid silent auctions nor any online auction I know of are conducted that way.

At least one online auction I have used has almost exactly that rule in place (ebid was it?). Other online auctions certainly have different processes than ebay, and closed/open/silent auctions are all over the place WRT what happens with no bids, late bids, etc.

That said, I'm amazed people thing there's anything unfair about how ebay currently works. Amazed.

Agreed! No matter what the rules are, buyers and sellers are aware of the terms, and they agree to the them.

I didn't know there were auctions that worked differently, but I'm pleased to hear it, as it gives more options to buyers and sellers and creates competition among providers. The users of the auction sites will ultimately decide which sites are best for them overall.

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

Question. Was the bidder willing to pay $100 for the item, or was he willing to pay $170 for the item? If $170, why did he only bid $100 to start?

He was apparently willing to spend up to $170 or just above that. Of course he was also hoping to get the item for a lower price if nobody else was interested or thought it was worth $170.

It is still an auction, not just a sale.

Remember that the terms of the auction involve proxy bidding, and there is no way around this. Could it be that he was hoping to get the item for as little as possible, but would have spent up to $170 if necessary? If so, then why not bid $170 at the end. The outcome will be the same if he wins.

Do you mean like $170 as a plain bid? The outcome would only be the same if someone else was going to "bid him up" to $170. Perhaps he could have gotten it for $150, who knows?

Or do you mean that he would place a sniper-bid in the last second of the auction? Well the outcome would be the same if there was not a second guy also placing "plain bids" and he got the item snatched from in front of his eyes. ;)

Or do you mean to place a Ebay maximum bid in the last minute?

I don´t get it, why not just place your bid earlier so everyone can have their stab at the item, they can place their maximum bids and the one willing to pay the highest price for the item wins it. Not the guy with the most effective sniping software settings. ;) It sure seems like the most fair and "the same chance to everyone" kinda auction for me.

Isn´t the whole idea about an auction to let the one willing to bid the highest price win the item?
Or is it about trying to find an effective software solution to snatch things in front of other peoples eyes?

I have been to real auctions, and I would vote for the first alternative.

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

ccortez wrote:

If he thought the item was worth more than $100, he can only blame himself for underbidding. If he thinks the item is worth less than $105, he bid correctly and should be happy. In either case, the market functioned perfectly..... Exactly the same case. His real bid was $170. Why did he place the bid in increments starting at $100 if he really thought the item was worth $170?

Well it is an auction, remember? You are supposed to be able to (hopefully) find things that you want to buy and perhaps even get them for a good price. ;)

Ever been to a real auction? Do people only bid exactly the highest possible price they are willing to pay? No, they are hoping to get it for a lower price. ;)

Duh! :roll:

What do you guys have against the auction being extended if a bid is placed within the last three minutes to give people a chance to place another bid, really?

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

ccortez wrote:

What's the main reason I use sniping software? I don't like watching auctions, and I don't like planning my life around their end time. If I just called it "bidding software" I bet it wouldn't provoke such a reaction.

Then why don´t you use Ebays maximum bid service? No need to plan your life around an auction, no need to watch the auction.

I say Ebays service IS a bidding software, and sniping services are sniping services, a huge difference in my eyes. ;)

It would be really fun to see the extension of auctions put all those sniping softwares out of business. :lol:

[JGrube]

Same... My question is, why isn't the guy using sniping software?

Good point. If someone brought a gun to a knife fight, I'd certainly want to have a gun as well (OK OK OK, I know it's not the same thing).

I think what gets people's dander up is the IDEA of someone purchasing a piece of technology to give them an edge, instead of just doin' it natural, man.

That said, I've always beat the "snipers" by just bidding the most that I'm actually willing to pay. In the end, several snipers have tried to snatch my items at the last millisecond (literally!) and have failed because they were still not willing to pay what I was, and I've NEVER had to pay out my maximum bid because the snipers never raise the end price by more than a couple of bucks.

I think Cortez is right. They should just call it "bidding" software. When you say "sniping" it feels more like Charli is hiding in the bush waiting to shoot it out of your hands.

Stirring the pot,

Jason

[Juno]

Then again, maybe I did. I remember at some point I was just trying to irritate you.



Tim

Then maybe you should start posting more productively. Do I have a quote in the signature section that says, "irritate me without cause just for the fun of it"?

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

When you say "sniping" it feels more like Charli is hiding in the bush waiting to shoot it out of your hands.

Well isn´t that exactly what they want to do, and what they are trying to do?
Why else would they hide in the bushes until the last second of the auction?

There is no need to wait until the last second of a real auction because people are always given the chance to place a higher bid. Auctions on the internet should give people the chance to do the same in my opinion.

[Juno]

Lets say a guy place a plain old bid, $100. OK, I am the winner, nobody else is bidding, I will win this, great! The last seconds are ticking away and a sniping software wins the auction for $105. No fun for the guy hoping to get the item for $100 or something like that, nobody else was bidding so he thought he would win...

That is the stupidest thing that I have ever heard! No fun or no fair? They are two distinctly different things! Reality is not always fun but guess what, the auction clearly states how long the bidding will be for. That means anytime within that stated time frame is open season on bidding! Anyone that places a bid early or not should expect the possibility of another bid coming after. Even if that means up to the last seconds. This could mean manually or automatically through a sniping service. What about the guy sitting by his computer waiting for the last second to hit " Confirm bid" is that unfair too? Thinking you will win and winning are two different things. Because someone thinks that they will win means that they should? Gee, we all think that we are going to win or have a chance to win so maybe they should hand out consolation prizes!

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

Because someone thinks that they will win means that they should?

Ha, ha. You are fun! :lol:

You didn´t bother to read anything, did you?
I think they should be given a chance to place another bid by extending the auction for three minutes, that´s all. And it would be the right thing to do. Think about it. ;)

[Lunar07]

As is now, the eBay system is childish and has this 'sntach' aura about it that makes people with some serious items think twice before placing them on eBay. Sniping kills the spirit of the auction and prevents the real value from being realized as it is implemented now.
All should remember that this is not about 'savvy' buyers who are more of brutes, but this is about sellers who are getting screwed in the process. Many buyers will not succeed a certain limit, hoping to buy an item at the minimum that they could get, while preserving NOT a cheap price BUT a FAIR price. Sniping, ironically, as is implemented now on eBay, DESTROYS that principle.
Those who are defending sniping in its present form are missing this point. They are going for a cheap price that does NOT reflect the value of an item. Thus in its present form, the seller is getting screwed when a seller starts an auction at a low price trying to create enthusiam.
I suggested that:

If a bidder does not place a bid at least 12 to 24 hours before the end of an auction, then that bidder will not be allowed to bid in that auction. As simple as that!

Uppsala mentions that is is OK to extend the auction 2-3 minutes after it ends so that those who bid can actually re-bid.

Both suggestions are about creating a pool of buyers who are serious enough about getting the item at a fair price.
Not SNATCHING via children's games that is killing the process of auctioning.

Actually the perfect answer for Monobaths "Why?" (as in why a auction would be extended if someone places a bid during the last 3 minutes of the auction time). would be:

Why not? ;)

It would take the sniping and snatching out of the game and everyone would get the items for whatever the REAL highest price would be, after all maximum bids and late bids have had their chance to get the item. And the one who wanted to pay the REAL highest price would win the auction.

Perhaps even the schilling would seem less interesting to some. I mean if they knew the item would actually sell for whatever anyone is willing to pay for it, not for a price to whoever had the most effective sniping software setttings. ;)

[Juno]

Because someone thinks that they will win means that they should?

Ha, ha. You are fun! :lol:

You didn´t bother to read anything, did you?
I think they should be given a chance to place another bid by extending the auction for three minutes, that´s all. And it would be the right thing to do. Think about it. ;)

I read all I need to. Extending the auction will just generate new software to deal with that. It is a reality, deal with it. It is perfectly acceptable unlike schilling. The word "auction" does not imply that the rules have to be the same as a verbal one. It is a close approximation of the same process but not necessarily by the same rules. Unless you want to do this thing on a web came so that people can verbalize their bids. The hyper bidding drives up prices by a lot of people that don't end up paying because they are not of rational mind. This only adds to headaches for selllers who get non paying customers because they let their emotions exceed their need or true personal value for the item. Sniping keeps the sales to those that truly need and deserve the item. It is like not knowing when to stop gambling and you keep rolling the dice hoping to reverse your fortune but only get deeper into debt.