Auction sniping software not effective anymore?

[namke]

As far as being a seller goes (which has been a deeply unsatisfactory experience recently*), sniping means that the 'true' value of something is not reached... I still think that if ebay operated a 'notional' end time for each auction (rather than the fixed endpoint that we have now) whereby the auction runs for (say) half-an-hour after the last bid, then fairer prices would be reached (for both buyer and seller). That move would make sniping unneccessary/counter-productive...


john..

* trying to sell a drum machine recently, having 11 people watching it but in the end no bidders - a number of people emailed me afterwards saying they forgot to bid >:(

[super8man]

When exactly would the auction end? In theory it could go on forever!

Here's the link where it has all been discussed before...

viewtopic.php?t=10405

[Lunar07]

I noticed that Bauer 209XL. I just got an excellent Bauer 207XL at a great price to replace my 207XL that I had for 20 years (Thanks to Hassan of this forum in Iceland - In Iceland? 8O hehehehe - I have to give it to the Icelandic post office, the best mailing boxes there is). This is why I did not bother with the 209XL. Same optics anyway, but the 209XL macro has more magnification.
One thing bothers me about sniping - more and more I am getting into conflict with buyers who snipe one of the few items I sell from time to time and they actually forget about the auction. I just can not stand those characters.

On a different note - Yesterday while watering the backyard, I noticed the most amazing spider building its web between the wall and a tree. And I have seen countless kinds of spiders. Never seen anything like it. This thing looks like a cross breed of magnified nanotechnology out of Lem science fiction novel and a space armoured vehicle. No kidding. Just amazing. With patterns that proclaim damnation from a mile away. So, I took some footage of the spider using the macro on the 207XL with K40. Hopefully it comes out fine. although I was wishing I had E64 instead. More detail in E64T. I need to get some 16mm film stock. Spider will look better with the Switar 75mm Macro :-D But then I am thinking aloud here.
Are you interested in selling the Bauer 8E Makro by the way? :lol:

The bigger issue is that people are inately (sp?) unable to define the exact price they are willing to pay for a good. And when another agent becomes interested in the item, their internal evaluation just goes higher! No, simply bid at any time the FINAL price you are willing to pay. I have a theory that often times placing a bid early actually scares folks away from an item...so there is a lot of psychology going on. Case in point - a Bauer 209XL just sold for $30 last night. Very low price considering the fabulous optics. Now, had we posted that same item here on the filmshooting auction site that does not exist, I am sure it would have fetched about $50-$150 due to nothing more than I want to prove to someone else that I got that camera...

And the last time I checked, that Porsche911SC parked outside is not mine...now that's something that should be socialized so that I can have one...how unfair is that! Jebus...

[MovieStuff]

Its "shill," not "schill."

Schilling is a seasoning brand.

Tim

Wasn't there a whole debate about this months ago? Anyway, "shill" or "schill", you know what I mean....

Roger

[etimh]

Were you not the same person that said that schilling was just something that we would have to accept as a part of the game?

Wow, you can really hold a grudge.

As I recall, my discussion around shill bidding was simply about bringing a realistic perspective to the issue by pointing out that it was a fact of the ebay experience that we would probably just have to live with. I don't think I ever actually defended shilling as a practice.

Then again, maybe I did. I remember at some point I was just trying to irritate you.

For the record, I don't think either shill bidding or software-based sniping are very cool practices. That's all. Otherwise, I don't really care that much. People can do whatever they want. I'm not a cop nor god, so do as thou wilst.

Tim

[super8man]

Hands off my Bauer 8E Makro! Yeah, I was going to snipe and then wondered if I would really use the camera...so I held back. I am tired of $50 flingers on ebay.

To schill or not to shill, that is the question...perchance to win. Aye, there's the rub. Is it nobler...I digress.

Anyway, you can always tell when message boards get boring since we all end up talking about the weather, uh, I mean whether ebay is good or evil or indifferent. If it wasn't for ebay and walmart, we would have nothing to talk about. Hey, who brought WalMart into this conversation...or should I say run on sentence...

[audadvnc]

So, what do ya think's better, film or video?

[Lunar07]

Keeping prices down is fine - but this does not make for a fair market. What we are seeing is a breed of spoiled buyers who expect something for almost nothing. Most of the time, I wait till the last 15 seconds. But when I am really interested in an item, I place an early bid. Just once in most cases. The eBay model may end up driving sellers away. It gets to the point of being not worth it. Or starting auctions with a higher price. I'd recommend the following:
1. Sniping is ok, but
2. If a bidder does not place a bid at least 12 to 24 hours before the end of an auction, then that bidder will not be allowed to bid in that auction. As simple as that!

You want an item so bad where you are willing to snipe it, then proclaim your interest by being forced to place a bid at least 12 to 24 hours before end of auction. Or stay away and watch the auction without being allowed to bid. This can correct many issues with how the process is taking place now.

[wahiba]

Bidding your maximum up front can defeat snipers. As sniping is exactly that, but paying someone to do it at the last second in the hope yours is the highest bid.

I assume that even snipers cannot outbid a much higher bid. :?:

[monobath]

Keeping prices down is fine - but this does not make for a fair market. What we are seeing is a breed of spoiled buyers who expect something for almost nothing. Most of the time, I wait till the last 15 seconds. But when I am really interested in an item, I place an early bid. Just once in most cases. The eBay model may end up driving sellers away. It gets to the point of being not worth it. Or starting auctions with a higher price. I'd recommend the following:
1. Sniping is ok, but
2. If a bidder does not place a bid at least 12 to 24 hours before the end of an auction, then that bidder will not be allowed to bid in that auction. As simple as that!

You want an item so bad where you are willing to snipe it, then proclaim your interest by being forced to place a bid at least 12 to 24 hours before end of auction. Or stay away and watch the auction without being allowed to bid. This can correct many issues with how the process is taking place now.

Where does the notion that sniping isn't "fair" come from? An auction is a very fair market.

A seller wants to sell something. He puts the starting bid at the minimum he is willing to accept, or he places a reserve on the item. That price is a fair price, or he would have set it higher. Either that, or he is a gambler, and if so, then he is accepting the gambler's risk. That's still fair. There's no guarantee of success in gambling.

During the auction, buyers bid on the item. They bid the most they are willing to pay. Whatever they bid is fair because it represents the most that any bidder is willing to pay. If there was no reserve or if the reserve was met, any final bid constitutes a fair final price for the item, and it reflects a fair value for that item in the market it was coveted by at that moment in time.

Because of the automatic ebay proxy bidding policy, the highest bid will always win, no matter when it is placed.

It is fair.

[Lunar07]

By choosing to quote me in the context of talking about fairness of sniping, you are actually misrepresting my ideas. Where did I mention the fairness of sniping? Please quote from the correct context next time if you do not mind.

Keeping prices down is fine - but this does not make for a fair market. What we are seeing is a breed of spoiled buyers who expect something for almost nothing. Most of the time, I wait till the last 15 seconds. But when I am really interested in an item, I place an early bid. Just once in most cases. The eBay model may end up driving sellers away. It gets to the point of being not worth it. Or starting auctions with a higher price. I'd recommend the following:
1. Sniping is ok, but
2. If a bidder does not place a bid at least 12 to 24 hours before the end of an auction, then that bidder will not be allowed to bid in that auction. As simple as that!

You want an item so bad where you are willing to snipe it, then proclaim your interest by being forced to place a bid at least 12 to 24 hours before end of auction. Or stay away and watch the auction without being allowed to bid. This can correct many issues with how the process is taking place now.

Where does the notion that sniping isn't "fair" come from? An auction is a very fair market.

A seller wants to sell something. He puts the starting bid at the minimum he is willing to accept, or he places a reserve on the item. That price is a fair price, or he would have set it higher. Either that, or he is a gambler, and if so, then he is accepting the gambler's risk. That's still fair. There's no guarantee of success in gambling.

During the auction, buyers bid on the item. They bid the most they are willing to pay. Whatever they bid is fair because it represents the most that any bidder is willing to pay. If there was no reserve or if the reserve was met, any final bid constitutes a fair final price for the item, and it reflects a fair value for that item in the market it was coveted by at that moment in time.

Because of the automatic ebay proxy bidding policy, the highest bid will always win, no matter when it is placed.

It is fair.

[monobath]

By choosing to quote me in the context of talking about fairness of sniping, you are actually misrepresting my ideas. Where did I mention the fairness of sniping? Please quote from the correct context next time if you do not mind.

If I misunderstood you, I apologize. The subject is sniping software, and several people have claimed that using it is fair or not fair, and several agree that it keeps prices down, whether fair or not. Then you say ...

Keeping prices down is fine - but this does not make for a fair market.

If keeping prices down is fine (by what mechanism?) but it leads to an unfair market (is that also fine?), and if the context is not the ongoing subject of discussion (sniping), then are you actually referring to something that hasn't been the subject of discussion yet, and which you perhaps failed to identify?

If you'll clarify the correct context of your remarks it may help me to understand. Clearly, I believe that I understand the context of your remarks, but I certainly do not mean to misrepresent you or anyone else.

Even if I misread your intent, I still wish to make the point that there is nothing unfair about a voluntary transaction between a seller who gets at least the minimum he is willing to accept for an item (his starting price) and a buyer who pays no more than he wishes (his maximum bid), regardless of the timing of the bids.

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

An auction is a very fair market.

Yeah, but a normal auction doesen´t end the second someone yells "I raise with 1 dollar!". ;)

A very good solution would be to actually continue the auction for three more minutes for each bid that is placed within the last three minutes! Hell that would solve it all!

I think extremly late "maximum bids" or sniping softwares are unfair and no good. Why should the price be kept down if people are willing to pay more for the item for sale? I say let it sell for whatever people are willing to pay for it.

Using Ebays maximum bid service and placing an early bid is what I do. If someone wants to buy the item they can place a bid, and it is immediately overbid, they can raise and it is immediately overbid. Until they think it gets too expensive or someone goes higher than what I am willing to pay for the item, OK, fair, let them buy it then.

No hiding in the bushes, no trying to snatch it in front of someone elses eyes because they did not have time to place a higher bid if they wanted to. Nobody can think it is unfair because the price is already set long time ago and if someone wanted to try and outbid me they had all the time in the world to do it.

And you still have the chance to get the item for a good price.

[monobath]

An auction is a very fair market.

A very good solution would be to actually continue the auction for three more minutes for each bid that is placed within the last three minutes! Hell that would solve it all!

Why? Neither live auctions nor closed or open bid silent auctions nor any online auction I know of are conducted that way. Ebay has its own clearly spelled out auction rules, and both sellers and buyers agree to those terms.

I think extremly late "maximum bids" or sniping softwares are unfair and no good. Why should the price be kept down if people are willing to pay more for the item for sale? I say let it sell for whatever people are willing to pay for it.

But that's the point. The price is not being artificially kept down. Anyone can bid any amount they want at any time. Items do, in fact, sell for what people are willing to pay.

Using Ebays maximum bid service and placing an early bid is what I do. If someone wants to buy the item they can place a bid, and it is immediately overbid, they can raise and it is immediately overbid. Until they think it gets too expensive or someone goes higher than what I am willing to pay for the item, OK, fair, let them buy it then.

But that is exactly how sniping software works in conjunction with Ebay proxy bidding. Everyone who uses sniping software decides in advance how much they are willing to spend. The item still goes to the highest bidder, regardless of when the bid was placed.

No hiding in the bushes, no trying to snatch it in front of someone elses eyes because they did not have time to place a higher bid if they wanted to. Nobody can think it is unfair because the price is already set long time ago and if someone wanted to try and outbid me they had all the time in the world to do it.

Ebay proxy bidding is in effect for all regular auctions all the time. So if people use it, as you say you do, then they do have all the time alloted to the auction to place their bid.

Guess what? If someone is willing to pay $1000 for an item that I'm only willing to pay $100 for, and they make their bid in the first seconds of the auction, and I make my bid in the last seconds of an auction, then assuming no bidding in between has pushed it up higher than their bid, they will win the auction, not me. The only difference is that if if a lot of bidding occurs during the auction and it goes above the $100 I'm willing to spend, I won't bother bidding at all. Happens all the time.

And you still have the chance to get the item for a good price.

You have the best chance at the lowest possible price if you wait to the end. There is nothing unfair about this, since you cannot win an auction by bidding less than a seller is willing to accept (his starting price).

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

But that is exactly how sniping software works in conjunction with Ebay proxy bidding. Everyone who uses sniping software decides in advance how much they are willing to spend.

Nope, big difference. No hiding in the bushes or hoping that someone will miss a bid in the last second of the auction. ;)

Believe it or not but people are actually using plain "single bids" when they want to buy something.

Lets say a guy place a plain old bid, $100. OK, I am the winner, nobody else is bidding, I will win this, great! The last seconds are ticking away and a sniping software wins the auction for $105. No fun for the guy hoping to get the item for $100 or something like that, nobody else was bidding so he thought he would win...

Same scenario, he places a bid: $100. OK. good, he is the winner so far, 3 days before the auction ends someone bids over him, so he tops the bid, is overbid, now he bids $150, he is immediately overbid and bids $170. Now he is the winner again because the opponent only wanted to pay $165 for the item. The auction ends and he is the winner (or he would have been the loser if he didn´t want to outbid the guy placing the Ebay maximum bid, he had the chance to do it but chose not to).

See the difference here? Or do you still think it is exactly the same?