What is better.....Final cut pro or Adobe?

[lastcoyote]

I believe the good one come from the editor's brain, not the tool.

forgive me if I'm wrong!

[etimh]

Who says I'm going to war? I'm only trying to solve and distinguish two different issues here that got intermingled with each other ('Premiere Pro vs. FCP' and 'Cutting/editing vs. compositing/layering').

I don't think lastcoyote was addressing you tlatosmd. I get your arguments, they're clear and reasonable. I think the loudmouth "partisans" were the target.

Blessed be the peacemakers.

Tim

[Scotness]

Did you see a little movie called "The Aviator"? It was edited in FCP. So were many Hollywood movies. I would say that qualifies it as a fully professional tool. I put my Mac Mini based FCP HD system together for less then a copy of most other software alone. I would say FCP wins hands down. They are all only tools. In the right hands even Windows Movie Maker could make a watchable movie.

Regards,
Paul Cotto

Any idea what the workflow was here? Obviously the cgi wasn't done in it - but was the final cut assembled in it in HD and then printed to film?

I think nowadays too your choice of codec could be more important than your choice of NLE!!

I thought the wedding video was good - you've got to see it for what it was meant for - and it would have made alot of people very happy - particularly the people who matter the most - the bride and groom and their families and friends.

I agree with alot of the middle ground comments here - at the standard of these NLE's it's your use of them which is going to make the difference - not which prog you are using.

Scot

[S8 Booster]

I'm hoping somebody else will post a clip they did from start to finish in FCP.....somebody please post a wicked clip.

not a wicked clip n not my work - nevertheless done properly on fcp:

30s teaser from:
http://www.mattias.nu/sisteni/teaser2003.qtl

about
http://www.mattias.nu/sisteni/

from:
http://www.mattias.nu/tmts/

s

[paulcotto]

I read about it in American Cinematographer Magazine a few months ago. It should be posted on there web site by now. It had a low budget and lots of CG work so they had to find cost effective ways to make it happen. They did lots of editing on Mac Powerbooks if I remember correctly. Here it is>>

http://www.theasc.com/magazine/jan05/aviator/index.html

Regards,
Paul Cotto

Did you see a little movie called "The Aviator"? It was edited in FCP. So were many Hollywood movies. I would say that qualifies it as a fully professional tool. I put my Mac Mini based FCP HD system together for less then a copy of most other software alone. I would say FCP wins hands down. They are all only tools. In the right hands even Windows Movie Maker could make a watchable movie.

Regards,
Paul Cotto

Any idea what the workflow was here? Obviously the cgi wasn't done in it - but was the final cut assembled in it in HD and then printed to film?

I think nowadays too your choice of codec could be more important than your choice of NLE!!

I thought the wedding video was good - you've got to see it for what it was meant for - and it would have made alot of people very happy - particularly the people who matter the most - the bride and groom and their families and friends.

I agree with alot of the middle ground comments here - at the standard of these NLE's it's your use of them which is going to make the difference - not which prog you are using.

Scot

[teadub]

christoph: i never buy dvds, but i may buy this.

Get it! The transfers are fantastic and there is some sweet footage from some French TV show with Cassavetes driving through the Hollywood Hills, and he seems drunk!

[christoph]

christoph: i never buy dvds, but i may buy this.

yeah, been thinking about getting that myself, and i don't even own a TV set...
problem is, that links to this and that again to this and that to... so, better don't get started ;)

but, back to topic, which is: what's "better", Adobe or FCP?
apparently somebody wants to make a buying decision, and he's willing to spend quite a bit of cash on it, so telling him that you can just as well make a film in moviemaker is not very helpful (and not true either ;)

anyway lets compare the two:
premiere pro is 750USD, Final Cut comes in three variants FCE HD (300.-), FCP5 (1000.-) and Final Cut Studio (1300.-).. (you can buy FCE and upgrade to FCP later for the difference, so no money is lost).

FCE probably does everything the normal hobby shooter needs and has a very, very good interface.
FCP5 adds some professional features, the most obvious for the home user probably are better color correction and batch capture. but it also adds virtually every quicktime video format (plus IMX), does OMF audio exports, subframe audio keyframing and other stuff.
on top of that it adds the Cinema Tools to prepare a film negative cut (including the 24 to 29.97 calculations), Soundtrack for basic sound work, Compressor for video conversions and LiveType for titles (which i never really found useful).
FCP Studio adds DVD Studio Pro which arguably is the "best" DVD authoring app in this price range, Motion for visual effets (which i havent used myself so far) and Soundtrack Pro.
also see http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/fin ... specs.html

pros FCP:
best interface ;)
huge media support
very large user base, including a lot of pro houses
true 24P editing
OMF sound mix export
manage film keycodes

I haven't used the latest version of Premiere and can't find a feature summary page, but here is what i think is different (please somebody correct me if i'm wrong):

pros Premiere:
easier effect work
better integration with After Effects
works on PC and Mac

so if you're on a budget and do editing for fun, i'd advice for FCE, if you need professional integration, get FCP5 or even better FCP Studio for the added value.
if you're on a PC and edit for fun, get Premiere.. if you need to get professional work done, get the version of Avid that meets your needs/budget. (btw, by professional work i'm not refering to the quality, but mainly hooking up into existing professional workflows as you're unlikely to finish the project from start to end yourself)

I also suggest you sit down on both systems a few hours and see which one feels more friendly under your hands.
++ christoph ++

[sooper8fan]

tlatosmd wrote:

according to what we've learned at college...

Maybe that's the problem (not your problem, just in general). I've been doing this line of work since '98 and I'm about 95% self-taught. No classes, no "teachers", no books (other than equipment manuals). Who knows?

etimh wrote:

The market will determine its validity and value one way or another.

And "the market" here in my area has chosen me as People's Choice Winner for Best Videographer for 2 years in a row. Not a big deal, but I must be doing something right, right?

etimh also wrote:

You condescending dope. It was a fucking WEDDING video.

LOL.....etimh's my boy!

Some final thoughts before I leave this thread alone and move on. Thanks to all who complimented the clip and could see it for what it's purpose was. To those of you who could not appreciate it, I'm sorry you feel that way.
With all the talk about using a certain editing program just to cut the basic piece together, and using a slew of other programs to create the graphics and motion effects, etc.....then the name of this topic is completely pointless. We've established that the basic cuts and fades can be done in just about any editing program. Maybe the topic should be called "what programs have the best effects" or "what 3rd party programs do you use and what kinds of things can be done with them" or something...I don't know. And I don't really care anymore.

[S8 Booster]

..... but here is what i think is different (please somebody correct me if i'm wrong):

pros Premiere:
easier effect work
better integration with After Effects
works on PC and Mac

++ christoph ++

havent checked lately but the last i saw about premiere for mac was that Adobe stopped to supporting it due to competition from FCx.

i have the last one i know of: 6.5 for the MAC and it was a total disaster on my OSX machine: It "fixed" up some system or user settings so it "mended" a few programs as mail which lost it accounts setup - allthough mails not. occatiocal 6.5 crashes etc - once de-installed problems gradually disappeared (does macs "learn"? - experienced his before)

anyway, in terms of use - allthough some options were added since the 4.0 which i still like a lot for its creative interface and handling simplicity a huge number of (pro) options were lost with the 6.5 so i heavily dislike it. also colour corrections/filters etc is very flimsy in use compared to how i experience them in say photoshop allthough the interface is similar.

also tested the avid free dv on my macs and it is a mess interfacewise and lacks allmost anything. heavily dislike it. for macs id recomend to look closer at fce or fcp.

s

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

Perhaps Premiere Elements should be added to the pile of programs when doing a price comparison. It should also be able to do all that is needed for "home editing".

It costs US$99.99

[christoph]

And "the market" here in my area has chosen me as People's Choice Winner for Best Videographer for 2 years in a row. Not a big deal, but I must be doing something right, right?

nobody said you're doing something wrong, all i said was that your clip really shows what a video package can do for special effects rather than for editing... that, and that i don't like it :P

With all the talk about using a certain editing program just to cut the basic piece together, and using a slew of other programs to create the graphics and motion effects, etc.....then the name of this topic is completely pointless. We've established that the basic cuts and fades can be done in just about any editing program.

obviously you never really edited a bigger project (which is fair enough if you don't need it for your work), but those who do know that a huge slice of editing is organizing your media, tons of audio work (like synching, replacing dubbing etc) and being able to hand over everything for further post production. it's also about changing your edit in the most convenient way, so you don't have to think about the technical aspect too much, but rather about the content.
this is why avid is still the biggest player in the pro market, although the interface and effect handling sucks to hell.

Maybe the topic should be called "what programs have the best effects" or "what 3rd party programs do you use and what kinds of things can be done with them" or something...

that would be a good topic too, honestly (but probably even more off topic here)... After Effect, Motion, Shake, Fusion, Combustion, they all have their strenghts and weaknesses (and all of them are better than Premiere and FCP by a far shot).
++ christoph ++

[matt5791]

pros FCP:
best interface ;)
huge media support
very large user base, including a lot of pro houses
true 24P editing
OMF sound mix export
manage film keycodes

I haven't used the latest version of Premiere and can't find a feature summary page, but here is what i think is different (please somebody correct me if i'm wrong):

pros Premiere:
easier effect work
better integration with After Effects
works on PC and Mac

++ christoph ++

To be fair, from what I understand, the latest version of premiere (Pro 1.5) is very much advanced over the previous editions and supports stuff like 24p editing. I have heard it described as "FCP for PC"

I went with it because I did not want to finance a move towards Apple.

Matt

[mynameisbob]

We use FCP 5 at my production company and we have produced fantastic edits using it mostly certainly isnt "lame"

We recently produced Vodafones "3G" launch event in london, we used video edits produced in FCP. We are currently working with Vodafone and the National Autistic Society, where we have produced a VT that shows thw world as viewed thru the eyes of an Autistic child. This video is going to be shown on british terretrial tv this week. All very exciting stuff - all edited on FCP!

A good editor will churn out good stuff from any program probably. We use a lot of effects, so FCP with Motion 2 was a good choice for us.