The best archival format for digital data in telecine work

[Raimo]

How do you archive your transfers and why? What do you think is the best long term digital data archival storage method?

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

Data DVDs.

[Alex]

You're going to get several different answers, no doubt.

I think BetaCam SP archiving (you can buy play only machines on ebay for around a thousand to 1,500 bucks!) is possibly the best all around way to go, unless you are doing your own transfers, in which case I have no idea (most people won't spend 4-8 grand on a Betacam Sp with record functions).

Dubbing BetaCam SP to mini-dv for computer work really doesn't seem to degrade the image any. I think I'd rather have a BetaCam SP archive tape than a mini-dv as my original archive simply because mini-dv is such a small and somewhat fragile tape format. However, I would not hesitate to use mini-dv even if it was a copy from the BetaCam SP archive.

When true 4-4-4 uncompressed is available, that will probably be the way to go, however, will we be able to afford the equipment?. Presumeably 4-4-4 will be computer based hardrives, which I tend to not like as a true archival format simply because at some point, the version you invested in could go out of favor and be "replaced".

The worst thing about archiving is having too many archiving formats.

Data DVD's are an interesting option, but I don't know enough about them to give them a thumbs up.

[tlatosmd]

Hard drives can crash, CDs and DVDs can get scratched, tapes 'fade' from age due to the magnetic particles coming off and getting back into our planet's natural magnetic field. Magneto-optical media (such as miniCD) probably are the best solution, they have a special surface layer (amber?) that protects the magnetical data from earth's magnetic field and that the laser has to melt each time in order to access the data.

And above all, a digital format readable today might not be readable tomorrow. Though of course, you might update and convert all your files in time. But who does?

Then again, someone here said "Focus on making something great, if you achieve that someone will make and keep it accessible." Think of da Vinci, Nietzsche, or Kierkegaard, all unrecognized during their lifetimes for their greatest works, and look where those works are today. Old DOS games might be a more recent example, people keep customizing DOS boxes and binary interpreters for modern Windows versions in order to play those outdated games.

[Nigel]

Here is how I handle my film.

Shoot film and then Xfer to what format seems to be in the now. Currently that is HDCam. Then if something comes up in 25 years I can pull the film out and Xfer again. Tape stocks are 10 year storage media in my eyes.

As for buying older tape formats--DON'T!!! Never buy into technology that is over the hill and on its way out as being accepted.

Good Luck

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

Hard drives can crash, CDs and DVDs can get scratched, tapes 'fade' from age

Hard drives that crash are wasted.

Magnetic tapes won´t last long.

DVDs that are scratched can be polished, so that is not a reason to throw them away. ;)

[Alex]

As for buying older tape formats--DON'T!!! Never buy into technology that is over the hill and on its way out as being accepted.

Good Luck

When it comes to 3/4 no one would argue.

Betacam sp machines are STILL being made and the UVW-1800 still commands 50% of it's sale value even if the machine is several years ago.

It's important to realize that what makes the new formats better is not actually the quality. It's things like, it's cheaper, smaller, needs less power, BUT, it's not true archival.

When you get into distribution, Digital Betacam and BetaCam SP are still formats of choice.

If there isn't a bias against watching a square picture on an HD set, Betacam SP and Digital Betacam formats would live for a very long time because the quality looks really good on an HD set.

[audadvnc]

Archive to 2 high fidelity formats, such as BetaSP and DigiBeta or DVCAM, with a backup to DVD. That way you're covered; the higher fidelity of digital and the known long term stability of analog. And keep your camera original film; next year's telecines will always be better than last year's.

[christoph]

putting digital data on BetaSP is a terrible idea imo, sorry...
it's expensive, it's unconvenient, it's slow, and you loose quality.

i dont trust miniDVs either, they get dropouts after a while in my experience..
i make a backup on DVD and keep another copy on a removable hard disk.. chances that both, the HD fails in the cupboard and the DVD get scratched in their cases are rather slim ;)

++ christoph ++

[timdrage]

I read that CD-RW are more archival than CD-R... as CDR have dyes that fade, whereas rerecordable have a metal layer?

I guess DVDr dyes also fade?

I saw a great interview with Steve Albini where he was talking about how he uses analogue only due to it being archival...

[tlatosmd]

I wouldn't say analogue video would be that much more archival...

[Alex]

putting digital data on BetaSP is a terrible idea imo, sorry...
it's expensive, it's unconvenient, it's slow, and you loose quality.

++ christoph ++

What are you basing your opinion on?

Mini-dv and betacam sp transfer prices are identical, unless you are doing it yourself, (which I mentioned earlier in this thread).

And there is no quality loss.

Broadcast television still revolves around Betacam SP and Digital Betacam, until HD eventually runs everything. But even then, all the existing programing that is on BetaCam SP and Digital Betacam will either be artificially lengthened to fit the screen, or left as is. (I'm sure the television stations will figure out a way to use the side borders).

[Alex]

I wouldn't say analogue video would be that much more archival...

About 15 years ago I was given a 3/4 tape of a live 1979 television broadcast of a football game. The tape still plays fine.

[tlatosmd]

Okay, I limit my case to the lower-end consumer formats VHS (in all versions) and Video8.

[tlatosmd]

Stills from private VHS copies from late 80s to early 90s of professional PAL TV signals.



















This is especially painful if private VHS copies like these are the only recordings left on earth of these broadcasts and this TV channel, as in this case.