Burning DVDs - advice

[Alex]

The ideal scenario, in my opinion, is to have an "extra" computer that is actually dedicated to making DVD's and not much else. If available space is an issue, a standalone DVD recorder does have a space advantage.

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

If available space is an issue? As in the space a computer takes up (almost none, just push it way back under the desk) or the available space on your hard drives?

Just buy another hard drive for your computer, if that is what is needed.

From the computer one exports DV firewire to a mini-dv tape, then from the mini-DV tape back into a standalone DVD recorder via firewire, now one can choose the exact quality setting they want.

So export it in real time to miniDV, then export in real time to your standalone recorder, then choose the settings and babysit it and put in your chapter points in real time?

Sheesh! Takes several times more than if you would do it with a computer!

Encode it to mpeg2 and choose the bitrate when you do so, then import to your DVD authoring software and set up the chapterpoints wherever you want them. Export and burn. Done.

[Alex]

The very first time you made a DVD, was it that easy?

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

Yes.

[Justin Lovell]

how about the last time, when you were under a tight deadline, and had to have it done by 7am the next morning?


btw, what seem to be the best DVD discs to use with a pioneer 109? I was using some kcypher media dvd-r's with great results at 12x, but switched to the more expensive maxell dvd+r's which can only burn at 8x, and have just had 4 discs have errors out of 6. ... grrr


justin
frame discreet
http://www.justinlovell.com

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

how about the last time, when you were under a tight deadline, and had to have it done by 7am the next morning?

I don´t get it. it is faster to do it with a computer.

Look, lets say you have 1,5 hours of footage. It takes 1,5 hours to export to a miniDV tape + 1,5 hours to export it from miniDV to your standalone + 1,5 hours to set the chapterpoints. That is 4,5 hours and the encoding and burning time is not even included. 8O

If you would do it on a computer there is no way making a DVD would take 4,5 hours. It is faster and gives better compability.

[Alex]

Are you telling me you would download a DVD and not watch it before sending it out?

I don't think its valid to count the exporting to tape step because that is a very essential step to take.

So don't add that into the time.

Now all that's left is loading it into the DVD stand alone recorder, adding chapter skips. (which I can usually do at 1/2 the running time of the project), and then burning, which is done at 8x times normal speed.

When I export from a 1 hour 30 minute BetaCam SP tape to the standalone DVD recorder, the whole process takes me about 2 hours and 30 minutes, then the 8x burning is done in about 8-10 minutes plus a minute for finalizing, and the quality is spectacular.

The quality is so good that I actually record at the 2 hour speed so I have a half an hour "guard band" around the DVD so that I am not close to the outside edge of the DVD, which tends to be the area most susceptible to glitching.

[al77]

The very first time you made a DVD, was it that easy?

but surely it doesn't make sense to judge things on how easy they are first time around? You may spend a bit longer learing how to do it with software, but that's time saved compared to running every copy off in real-time from then on. It also seems crazy to spend 10x more than you need on a stand alone recorder & end up with less control over the final result.

[super8man]

Dudes,

In DVD Architect, I have a slider control that allows me to set the bit rate of the project (at least that's what I call it). So, I always slide it up to the full 9.8Mbs setting and typically a 1.5 hour silent movie fits on a 4.7GB disk. However, at any time I can reduce the bit rate to get more time on the dvd, just like you do when you choose from the preset time rates...I just hate being restricted...no, the standalone player we use is the same as your Pioneer and its sole purpose in life is to make dvd watchable discs (mpg2 movies if you will) from VHS tapes. No Editing, no nothing, just a straight run.

However, the momemt someone wants any kind of edit, onto the timeline in a computer it goes.

As for archiving, I would not use the pioneer deck...since all it does is make mpg2. No, I would xfer to a pc and then copy the raw AVI files to multiple dvds and DATA DVDs.

So yes and no to all the above comments but generally, the standalone recorder is veeerrrry limited and after about two uses you will find the need to express your creativity and will not be able to. For instance, I love making the splash screens for the dvd using a jpg of a still frame capture...sets up the audience very nicely...

Oh, and please go to http://www.newegg.com to discover TRUE computer pricing...getting stuff from anywhere else is just silly.

[mattias]

I don't think its valid to count the exporting to tape step because that is a very essential step to take.

how essential can it be when it's not necessary? i never do it unless i need it for mastering or delivery. hey with fcp and compressor i don't even have to render before encoding.

/matt

[discs of tron]

yeah i never export master tapes to dv either. i just archive my projects and any non-tape based media involved therewith. and camera originals of course. if it's something major, i'll break the un-transcoded mov into segments of 15 minutes to throw on data dvd's, which are far from archival, but at least more archival than mini dv tapes.

however, to be fair to alex, i think it's ok to not count the output to dv tape since the standalone decks with fw in obviate the need for that step. (or do they?) i've never tried going directly into one from a computer. i assume if you turn off device control in fcp (or your nle of choice,) it should work.

i will say that at the place where i teach they have dells (which were top of the line last year,) with dvd burners and the entire adobe pro video suite. i had originally planned to have my beginning production students .output to dvd straight from their premiere pro timelines, since i don't have time to teach these people dvd authoring on top of every other aspect of production in a semester. however, i've somehow never been able to get that feature to work. so instead they transcode to mpeg2 with the included app (adobe's version of compressor, called something like "adobe media encoder" i believe,) and then open encore and author a self-playing dvd. anyhow, i haven't been able to get the straight-from-timeline method to work, and i'm someone who has a pretty good idea of what he's doing. your results will vary given different hardware, software, i.t. department, and so on.

ultimately, do whatever works for you. at another job i get a lot of faculty coming in with old tapes they want transferred to dvd. for that application, the standalone decks are great. no way in hell am i going to capture, edit, transcode, and then author and burn a dvd so they can have a new disc containing their old nypd blue episodes or whatever. but for my own work, i feel like authoring dvds (with dvd studio pro 5 on my g5, not on those crap dells) is a lot of fun. i sometimes think that i make better menus than movies. and custom menus of my own design, and the various interactive features that i can build into my discs, just seem like the best way to present my work.

oh yeah-
dvd-r only. avoid +r, dl (dual layer,) and any kind of rw. they are listed in ascending order of evilness. dual layer will be nice once the decks start having better compatibility (by which time there will probably be a hd dvd standard and sd dvd's will be obsolete.)

[Alex]

The very first time you made a DVD, was it that easy?

but surely it doesn't make sense to judge things on how easy they are first time around? You may spend a bit longer learing how to do it with software, but that's time saved compared to running every copy off in real-time from then on. It also seems crazy to spend 10x more than you need on a stand alone recorder & end up with less control over the final result.

I think you misunderstand. I would never make a DVD at realtime speed, I think the chance for errors are greater that way.

Once the master tape is recorded onto the harddrive of the standalone DVD burner, I can then run copies off at 8x normal speed. If I need to make a bunch, I also have a stack for burning 7 at a time.

[Alex]

however, to be fair to alex, i think it's ok to not count the output to dv tape since the standalone decks with fw in obviate the need for that step. (or do they?) i've never tried going directly into one from a computer. i assume if you turn off device control in fcp (or your nle of choice,) it should work.

Excellent point, one could go directly into the DVD standalone recorder from the computer via firewire.

I am surprised at how little some seem to value having a DV tape made of a finished NLE project. I think that's actually not wise for a variety of reasons.

[Alex]

Dudes,

In DVD Architect, I have a slider control that allows me to set the bit rate of the project (at least that's what I call it). So, I always slide it up to the full 9.8Mbs setting and typically a 1.5 hour silent movie fits on a 4.7GB disk. However, at any time I can reduce the bit rate to get more time on the dvd, just like you do when you choose from the preset time rates...I just hate being restricted...no, the standalone player we use is the same as your Pioneer and its sole purpose in life is to make dvd watchable discs (mpg2 movies if you will) from VHS tapes. No Editing, no nothing, just a straight run.

However, the momemt someone wants any kind of edit, onto the timeline in a computer it goes.

As for archiving, I would not use the pioneer deck...since all it does is make mpg2. No, I would xfer to a pc and then copy the raw AVI files to multiple dvds and DATA DVDs.

So yes and no to all the above comments but generally, the standalone recorder is veeerrrry limited and after about two uses you will find the need to express your creativity and will not be able to. For instance, I love making the splash screens for the dvd using a jpg of a still frame capture...sets up the audience very nicely...

Oh, and please go to http://www.newegg.com to discover TRUE computer pricing...getting stuff from anywhere else is just silly.

Super-8mm, I find the above very confusing. Of course the Standalone DVD recorder is limited, the whole point is you already did all the editing work ON THE TIMELINE on your computer, or on the tape that is being loaded into the standalone. You make it sound as if the DVD standalone recorder is not a good editor, well of course it isn't, the editing has already been done.

All the standalone DVD recorder is doing is making a clone to it's own internal hardrive, then one can make an initial DVD from that hardrive at 8X normal speed.

My point is simply if you want to keep it simple in the beginning and get doing, stand alone's offer a lot of utility. I have 60-70 EDITED MASTERS stored on ONE DVD standalone recorder. That works out to less than 6 bucks per edit master to have it stored where I can instantly make new copies if need be.

The cost will drop to less than 3 bucks per edited master if I purchase a 160 gig instead of the 80 gig, and that includes masters that are as long as an hour. Instant access to archival masters on hardrives is a very useful option to consider, and the more stuff kept off of the actual NLE computer, the better your actual NLE computer will operate on your new project.

I would suggest that anyone storing all the information on "data disks" that require batch capturing all of the original tapes would find it quite handy to just have it stored on a DVD standalone hardrive ready to go.

Of course a DVD copy can be used to make copies at a later date, but the chapter skips can't be altered without re-editing and recompressing the DVD.

The biggest flaw to my system is that I have to use existing templates for the menu page, and as Mattias pointed out, there are more navigation options when using a computer program.

The biggest benefit for me is I offer a lot of different tape services and I don't want to ever be in a situation where I'm stuck and as a result several projects are simultaneously bottlenecked.

[El Jeffe]

my humble advice.

When using your premiere pro and your project will exceed 10 minutes break up your chapters into seperate projects within premiere. You must be aware of your transitions between the chapters but that is pretty easy.

I reccomend getting adobe encore dvd, then when you export your raw dv chapters from premiere you will import them into encore and do all of your transcoding within that program. Encore is really easy to use.