Questions about rotoscoping.

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sonickel
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Questions about rotoscoping.

Post by sonickel »

hello everyone,

I'm planning a film which has a rotoscoping sequence at the end.
I've looked on the internet, and have found a lack of resources about super 8 rotoscoping techniques, so I've prepared a list of questions for you all.

1. Have any of you done rotoscoping using Super 8 before?
2. What equipment did you use to draw each frame with? (projector, editor/viewer, other?)
3. What were the pros and cons for each technique?
4. What equipment is the best for the job, in your opinion?

Any answers would be a good resource for this forum, as there's very little rotoscoping info on it.

Thanks in advance
:P
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Post by synthnut »

Hia,
I have a couple of articles from Starlog/CineMagic regarding building and using an aerial image system that would be ideal for rotoscoping and matting etc.
The file is quite a large PDF at the moment (66mb) , but I could break it down into smaller chunks if you are interested.
I really should put it up on my site if I can clear up the copyright...

The frame size of super 8 is obviously too small to do much in the way of direct cell rotoscoping!
Film Thurso has a technique they developed for this sort of thing i remember...

Good luck!,

Keep shooting the "reel" stuff!

Ben
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Rotoshop

Post by ccortez »

Rotoscoping as seen in the feature films "Waking Life" and the upcoming "A Scanner Darkly" and the shorts "Roadhead" and "Grasshopper" was done using a tool called Rotoshop, designed and built by fellow Austinite and friend o' mine Bob Sabiston (http://www.flatblackfilms.com). It hasn't been released for public use, licensing, etc. and probably won't be.
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Re: Questions about rotoscoping.

Post by MovieStuff »

sonickel wrote:
1. Have any of you done rotoscoping using Super 8 before?
2. What equipment did you use to draw each frame with? (projector, editor/viewer, other?)
3. What were the pros and cons for each technique?
4. What equipment is the best for the job, in your opinion?
Most any projector with a still frame and inching knob will allow you to advance one frame at at time. However, considering that you are in a country with a native frame rate of 25fps, I would suggest that you simply use video to shoot your reference material and then export those frames from your NLE as an image sequence. Then you can use Photoshop to print those frames on a cheap ink jet printer. The registration will be dead on and all you need is a cool light box to do your tracing.

I can build you a single frame projector, if you need, but the cost of the bulbs will be prohibitive because they don't last long and you will be using this unit extensively. The amount of money you'd pay in bulbs would cost more than an ink jet printer.

Roger
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Re: Questions about rotoscoping.

Post by jaxshooter »

sonickel wrote:hello everyone,


1. Have any of you done rotoscoping using Super 8 before?
2. What equipment did you use to draw each frame with? (projector, editor/viewer, other?)
3. What were the pros and cons for each technique?
4. What equipment is the best for the job, in your opinion?


:P
Back around 1981 I did a 30 second spot for a martial arts dojo that used a 10 second rotoscope piece where the karate instructor did his thing and was incorporated into a freeze and dissolve to the dojo's logo.

Most of the spot was actually 16mm,but the rotoscope action was shot on a Canon 1014 with Tri X reversal film.I don't know what the artist used for his table (I wasn't the artist),but I gave him an old projector (if memory serves it was old DeJur instavalometer with single frame capability,the wattage of the lamp was lowered by a rheostat to avoid burning the film.)
The image was rear projected from a mirror onto a translucent rear screen which the artist had built into his table.He basically traced the cells from the frames and painted the colors in.It was gorgeous.I animated his cells on a home built stand which we used a Mitchell 16mm camera for the animation.

For the job of shooting the live action,any reasonably stable super 8 camera will do.I recommend 24fps,unless you're over or undercranking for some effect.A high contrast black and white film stock (which is why we chose Tri X) will work very well as it gives the artist clearly defined lines to trace.All of the animation and art table stands were home built in our spot,though I'm sure there are commenrcial grade stands out there that will work fine.

The technique can be quite beautiful and the motion very lifelike and fluid.The only drawback I can imagine is if you are combining rotoscoped and non rotoscoped animation action and the movement not matching properly.We didn't have that problem though.

For animation,I suggest if you're using 8mm,go with single 8 or DS8 for stability.
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Post by BigBeaner »

Part of me hates to suggest taking your "low tech gear high tech" but there is Adobe After Effects 6.5 which can get you a lot of fun things.
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Post by sonickel »

Thanks for all the advice, folks. :D

I reckon I'll go with the video shooting, then printing out all the frames, tracing them, then shooting the finished result on film.

It will be much cheaper that way, and the registration will be perfect. :)

Do you know if Vegas 5 is capable of breaking down a sequence into a series of single frame pictures?
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Post by MovieStuff »

sonickel wrote: Do you know if Vegas 5 is capable of breaking down a sequence into a series of single frame pictures?
Not familiar with Vegas but I can not imagine it wouldn't have that feature. Look for "export time line" and then under preferences there should be something like "targa sequence" or "bit map sequence" or something like that. Any sort of image sequence will do the trick. Now, in Photoshop, you have to set up an "automate" function that you apply to a particular folder that has all the frames. You do this by simply hitting the "record" button for actions and then open the first file and print, then close that file and hit "stop". Then apply that action to the entire folder. It will open, print, and then close each file in order. If you don't record the "close" function as part of the action, all the files will stay open and that will quickly bog down your computer.

Roger
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Post by Evan Kubota »

"Now, in Photoshop, you have to set up an "automate" function that you apply to a particular folder that has all the frames. You do this by simply hitting the "record" button for actions and then open the first file and print, then close that file and hit "stop". Then apply that action to the entire folder. It will open, print, and then close each file in order. If you don't record the "close" function as part of the action, all the files will stay open and that will quickly bog down your computer. "

Easier to open a single filmstrip file and apply the actions there, don't you think? Of course if he's using Vegas it probably isn't an option to export as filmstrip.
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Post by MovieStuff »

Evan Kubota wrote:
Easier to open a single filmstrip file and apply the actions there, don't you think?
Not really. A filmstrip is seen by Photoshop as a single document, which precludes printing each frame out to paper as a guide for roto work. If he merely sets up to print from the folder that contains the frames, each will print out automatically in the order they were sequenced.

Roger
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Post by Patrick »

She!
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Post by Evan Kubota »

"If he merely sets up to print from the folder that contains the frames, each will print out automatically in the order they were sequenced."

Somehow I missed out on the fact that he was planning on rotoscoping the old fashioned way. I assumed he would be doing something on the computer...
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Post by namke »

sonickel wrote:Thanks for all the advice, folks. :D

I reckon I'll go with the video shooting, then printing out all the frames, tracing them, then shooting the finished result on film.

...

Do you know if Vegas 5 is capable of breaking down a sequence into a series of single frame pictures?
There's always 'Virtualdub' (http://www.virtualdub.org)- it's free and allows the export of AVI files as series of images...

john..
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Post by ccortez »

Patrick wrote:She!
That's right! The female members we have are rare enough already, we shouldn't run them off by smacking them upside the head with incorrect presumptious gender pronouns!

Now carry on... :)
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Post by MovieStuff »

ccortez wrote:
Patrick wrote:She!
That's right! The female members we have are rare enough already, we shouldn't run them off by smacking them upside the head with incorrect presumptious gender pronouns!

Now carry on... :)
Gads! My apologies, ma'am. Did not know there be a lady present.

Roger
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