Reel to reel tape deck

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 1:13 am

As an alternative to using modern technology such as a Professional Sony walkman for sound recording, how would a compact reel to reel tape deck fare out in the field? Any advantages / disadvantages? My most important question is - can you still buy the tape for them? Would all of them be compatible with a super 8 projector for dubbing - in terms of sockets / cords etc (silly question I know but just making 100% sure.)

I have checked one of the largish ones out in a sunday market and the sound quality on stereo was superb. Its great that old technology can still deliver the goods. However, I dont see too many small ones around for my sound recording purposes.

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 1:45 am

I have another question. I assume that the sound speed of a reel to reel tape deck is slower than 24 fps film speed. Would there be any problems of compatibility when dubbing the recorded sound onto my Elmo ST 180 projector running at 24 fps? When playing back the film afterwards (at 24 fps), the sound wouldn't be speeded up, would it?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:06 am

uher produced reel to reel recorders for field purposes. Radio shack sells the blank reel to reel tapes. The camera and recorder would need to be synced when filming/recording. Some forms of sync allow for a slight variance in speed.

Angus · Post by **Angus** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:57 am

There weren't too many portable reel to reels intended for high quality sound recording, many were for reporters to use before the days of micro-cassettes and digital recorders.

Uher, Telefunken, Phillips and surely others made portable battery operated reel to reel recorders...but most were intended for low-ish quality recordings........unless you go the Nagra route and have lots of money!

Post by **studiocarter** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:17 am

I've used some old ones, too. They have the big green "eye" sound tube showing on top, it gets open or closed according to the sound level and is so cool to watch during recording.
New tape is had at Radio Shack, but, old tapes work just as well from Thrift stores.
One of the two, projector or tape deck, will need to have a variable speed dial to keep sync. The Projector usually is adjusted to the taped sound. I've done it in a film class and had it come into sync by the end of the film. It takes practice but can be done pretty well. Go For IT!

Michael

Angus · Post by **Angus** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 1:21 pm

Radio Shack and Maxell (and possibly Agfa) are still manufactureing 1/4 inch open reel tape....however the Radio Shack is cheapest if you can get it. The British arm of Radio Shack seems to have disappeared

But fortunately a few years ago I bought a huge lot of ex-BBC Agfa Pro tape...

Post by **Pedro** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 3:56 pm

The Uher report machines are great for field sound, you only need tape on 13 cm reel. This is new available at Conrad electronic in Germany, have a look at http://www.conrad.com, they ship international.
The sound quality of Uher is absolutly great, specially at 19 cm/sec. It sounds far better than any digital recording, more dynamic, more authentic. The technical specs like frequency response (up to 20000 Hz), noise and wow and flutter are good enough for any further use. Absolutly no hiss.
Sound synchonisation must be done in post, the tape MUST NOT RUN AT THE SAME SPEED LIKE THE FILM, this had only been neccessary in the full coat area! The tape runs at itÃ‚Â´s on speed, you set according to your quality requirements! But: The camera must be cable connected in order to record camera pulses to one track for later syncing, or you record a pilot tone from the camera to the tape, or you use a crystal camera and a crystal pilot tone unit connected to the tape.
For editing and syncing, you need a pulse sychronizer when working with pulse/frame based synchronization or a pilot tone synchronizer when working with pilot tone. (Gebuhr synchronizer can manage both).
For synching, one of the devices (projector or tape deck) MUST have to possibility to external speed control and connection to the synchronizer.

Pedro

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:13 am

Woops! I forgot to mention that I am intending to use the reel to reel tape deck for recording wild sound, not sync sound. Would this difference between the film speed and the tape speed still matter / or need to be adjusted?

Post by **Lucas Lightfeat** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 2:11 am

Patrick - the basics you need to understand, again...

The tape deck speed should not be the same as the film transport speed - This is irrelevant, as the sound, whether sync or wild, plays back from the tape deck it was recorded on when transfering to your sound and vision mix: in your case a sound striped film. ( I am presuming you are either using out of date sound film or are getting your film sound striped after processing.)

Your sound will playback very close to the speed it was recorded on from most tape decks, whether a crystal sync sound recording unit or not. Your camera will possibly drift, and probably not film at exactly 24fps, so there is every chance you would need to adjust the projector playback speed to get the sound to sync up when dubbing audio onto your soundstriped film.

Good luck

Lucas

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 5:11 am

Thanks for the info, Lucas. There is a 'trash and treasure' market I go to most sundays and I have seen quite a few reel to reel tape decks there in the past, but not recently. However, all of the ones that I have seen there are a bit too big to be portable or mobile. As soon as I see a compact one that is in good working condition, I'll snatch it up.

Contrary to one of the above threads that claimed that most of them have low quality sound recordings, the one that I heard a sample from was very impressive indeed.

Post by **Pedro** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 11:15 am

To achieve best results with wild sync, you should use the same tape deck for playback as you had been using for recording.
If you have a projector with the possibility of fine regulation of the speed, either internal or external, you should try to match the projector speed with the camera speed in order to minimize drifting.
To do this adjusment, you shoot a test scene, using a stop watch. Make a shot for a definded period of time, f.e. 30 seconds or 60 seconds, controlling the shooting time as exactly as possible.
After developing, project this scene an look again at your stop watch to see if it is lasting more time or less time than during shooting. It the result is the same, you are adjusted. If it is less, increase the projector speed slightly and test again. It it is more, decrease the projector speed and test. After some try-and-error cycles, you should be able to match the projection duration of the test scene with the initial duration during shooting and can be shure, that your system will at least hold sync for this tested period of time.
However, this does not compensate any drifts caused by temperature, load, battery charge etc.
Pedro

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 1:03 am

My projector is an Elmo ST 180. It appears to be a fairly simple, non elaborate sound model from Elmo. I cannot recall any speed adjustment on it but I'll have to double check. I know that with the super elaborate Elmo GS 1200, you can vary the speed.