Oooooo. New and clever PayPal scam....

[MovieStuff]

Now THIS is pretty sneaky....

I buy a lot of items off ebay, most of which I use PayPal to pay with. So, just a few minutes ago, I get two emails. The first was from PayPal that said something like "Kyle Broderick has refunded your PayPal payment" and included a note from him that says the email address I originally used to pay for some ebay item was incorrect and that he has refunded my money and is sending another PayPal Money Request linked to the correct email address. And, sure enough, a moment later a PayPal money request pops into my inbox, complete with a "Pay Now" button.

Now one would think that, if this were a fake, then the "Pay Now" button would lead to a scam page where they get you to log in and then swipe your access code. Not so! The PayPal Money Request is guite real. So where's the scam in all this? The scam is his original "refund" email notice is a fake and is not from PayPal, even though his money request is valid. The idea is that no one would usually bother to question the legitimacy of a refund but would scrutinize the "Money Request" to see if it were real, which it is!

Because I buy so many things off of ebay and have actually had legit refunds like this, I almost fell for it but decided to check my account and, sure enough, I had never done business with him and there was no refund listed. I tell you I am actually fairly impressed with this one. Elegant in its simplicity.

Anyway, he'll probably change his name on various emails so keep your eyes open. I am certain he is targeting people that deal in high volume off of ebay where the items offer PayPal as a payment option. It probably won't effect most individuals but look out, it's getting pretty sneaky out there! 8O

Roger
http://www.moviestuff.tv

[Scotness]

I got an email from Paypal advising me there had been a purchase of In My Image from my web page but in order to collect the money I had to upgrade to a business or premium account and should click on a link to enter my details in order to do so.

This seemed suspicious because I'd never had to do this before to collect the money - and looking at the link it was http://www.paypal...... not https://www.paypal..... so needless to say I didn't go there.

I did think the whole thing was a fraud though until I checked my paypal account and there had indeed been a payment which I could transfer to my bank account with out having to upgrade ie give my details on a phoney site.

Its almost as if they intercepted the original email and substituted their link.

Scot

[filmman35]

Whenever you discover a new trick in the book from these scammers, please notify Paypal through their spoof@paypal.com email address and tell them the details.

The only thing I hope is that when these scammers do this to enough people, Paypal will PAY attention! Unfortunately, Paypal has skeletons of their own.

[al77]

...in order to collect the money I had to upgrade to a business or premium account and should click on a link to enter my details in order to do so...

I think this does happen when someone pays with funds from a credit card rather than transferring from a balance already in their paypal account. I had to upgrade my account for that reason. If you don't trust the link you should still be able to upgrade by going to the paypal page, or maybe that's what you did anyway.

[David M. Leugers]

For these type of reasons I stopped using PayPal several years ago and will never use them again. EBay thoroughly unimpresses me with their "it's your problem" approach to bad eBay sellers and buyers. Good thing 95% of the people are decent and honest.


David M. Leugers

[MovieStuff]

My beefs with both ebay and paypal have more to do with organization issues than responsibility issues. I mean, ebay is basically just a huge flea market where people rent tables to sell their stuff. I have never seen any flea market where the owner of the market was responsible for dead beat buyers or sellers. Like it or not, fraudulent transactions are the problems of the seller or buyer. They certainly aren't ebay's problems. In fact, that ebay does any type of due diligence at all about problem sellers or buyers is admirable (though mostly to protect ebay's own reputation, I'm sure) but it really isn't their responsibility to police anyone.

As far as paypal is concerned, they are just a courier service for funds and that's it. They have no responsibility to reimburse anyone because they got ripped off. They aren't in the loan or insurance business.

It's like this: If I told Joe that I owed money to the hardware store down the street and that I would pay Joe a small fee if he'd take my check down to him only, later, the check turned out to be bad, should the store owner hold Joe responsible for the bad check? Of course not. Joe is only the courier that brought the check. But to hear some people, the courier (in this case paypal) should be the one that takes the hit. That's just stupid. Again, paypal has some decent and well thought out security measures in place and they obviously work pretty good but there are going to be those that try to buck the system and some that even get away with it.

How paypal or ebay is supposed to be responsible for the ethics of others is beyond me. They certainly can't stop people from sending fraudulent emails or payments and they aren't the thought police. :roll:

Roger
http://www.moviestuff.tv

[Splee]

Well said, Roger. I've seen some enormously angry anti-Paypal rants from people, that have held them responsible for all sorts of ridiculous things when, as you say, it is merely a payment service. I personally have never had any problems with them at all, and I find it an extremely convenient way to move funds around.

Like all things, you have to be very careful indeed to avoid being scammed, but if you take basic Internet security precautions, you won't go too far wrong.

While I'm here, does anyone know if it's possible to move a Paypal account from one e-mail address to another? I have one on an e-mail address I'd like to stop using, and ideally I'd like to move it - with funds, verified status etc. - to another e-mail address.

Lee

[MovieStuff]

While I'm here, does anyone know if it's possible to move a Paypal account from one e-mail address to another? I have one on an e-mail address I'd like to stop using, and ideally I'd like to move it - with funds, verified status etc. - to another e-mail address.

I don't think you can. It would sort of defeat the whole verification process which, surprisingly, some people find annoying (generally the same people that bitch when they get ripped off, too). Because of the large volume of sales we do through PayPal, I've actually been assigned an account rep. I will ask him about moving to a new email address. If it can be done, he would be the one that would know what to do.

Roger
http://www.moviestuff.tv

[Splee]

Thanks, I'd appreciate that. My Paypal account is the only use I now have for the e-mail address concerned, that is now completely over-run with spam.

[wahiba]

Whenever I get an email from PayPal or eBay with a link then I forward it to spoof@ebay.co.uk and always get an automated reply. Sometimes there is a follow up reply which suggests they are trying to track these characters down. The more information they get, the more they can work on.

I thought one could change the email address just by logging onto ones Paypal account - the same way charge and credit cards can be changed, or even ones address.

I agree with Roger. eBay and PayPal are running an international flea market. From my experiences, so far, very well. But one always has to remember 'let the buyer beware' and 'if it looks to good to be true then it probably is'

[Splee]

I agree with Roger. eBay and PayPal are running an international flea market. From my experiences, so far, very well. But one always has to remember 'let the buyer beware' and 'if it looks to good to be true then it probably is'

Absolutely. When you buy a top-end digital SLR off eBay at less than half retail price, from a zero-rated seller based in Russia who insists on untraceable Western Union payment, don't come crying to me when the crook goes running with your money.

I've only had one bad experience on eBay, when I bought a Seagull TLR from someone who clearly knew nothing about it. When it arrived it was in terrible condition, and had a very iffy sticky shutter. I put it down to experience - I didn't ask enough questions of the vendor. Everything else has been just fine, including the mint Instamatic M2 I just picked up for a steal.

Lee

[Scotness]

I think this does happen when someone pays with funds from a credit card rather than transferring from a balance already in their paypal account. I had to upgrade my account for that reason. If you don't trust the link you should still be able to upgrade by going to the paypal page, or maybe that's what you did anyway.

No when I logged onto Paypal I could withdraw the money as per normal I didn't have to upgrade.

While I'm here, does anyone know if it's possible to move a Paypal account from one e-mail address to another? I have one on an e-mail address I'd like to stop using, and ideally I'd like to move it - with funds, verified status etc. - to another e-mail address.

Yeah I'm pretty sure you can - you just nominate a new email address as your primary one - I'm pretty sure I've done this.

Scot

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

Scotness wrote:

you just nominate a new email address as your primary one

I am pretty sure I did this too, they dropped all "tiscali" mail adresses because of some ISP fighting so I had to change it, my original mailadress was cut.

[Actor]

How paypal or ebay is supposed to be responsible for the ethics of others is beyond me.

But probably not beyond a talented lawyer. I hezitate to use the words "good lawyer" since that seems like an oxeymoron.

If a stray dog bites the mailman while he's on my property I am responsible, or so the law says. Supposedly I am supposed to erect a fence around my property to keep such hazards at bay. However, the sidewalk that passes in front of my property is a public thoroughfare and I cannot legally fence that off. Nonetheless, it is still my property and I am responsible if said stray bites anyone. Catch 22.

And if a burglar injures himself while he's burglarizing your house, e.g., bumps into something in the dark, you are responsible.

I have never seen any flea market where the owner of the market was responsible for dead beat buyers or sellers. Like it or not, fraudulent transactions are the problems of the seller or buyer.

Only because the lawyers do not see it as a lucrative field.

Any time there is a relationship between parties there is always the chance that one of the parties can be held legally responsible for the actions of one of the other parties. Buyer/seller/eBay/PayPal is a four way relationship. If your purchase of a $100 S8 cam goes sour and you want to sue eBay you probably have to do it in small claims court in San Francisco. Not worth the hassle. On the other hand a dispute involving a $14,000,000 jet would probably bring the lawyers running.

I'm no lawyer and could have this completely wrong. Unfortunately I don't think I am.

[aj]

If a stray dog bites the mailman while he's on my property I am responsible, or so the law says. Supposedly I am supposed to erect a fence around my property to keep such hazards at bay. However, the sidewalk that passes in front of my property is a public thoroughfare and I cannot legally fence that off. Nonetheless, it is still my property and I am responsible if said stray bites anyone. Catch 22.

And if a burglar injures himself while he's burglarizing your house, e.g., bumps into something in the dark, you are responsible.

I expect these to be urban legend. Even for the USA. Like crocodiles in the Paris sewersystem or solving rust using Coca-cola (tm etc).

But funny.