Newbie : Why Super 8?

[snaggs]

Im a stills photographer and as we also use Kodachrome found out about the whole K40 issue you guys are facing. I've read a few posts which I dont quite understand not being a cine guy.

1. What is Pro-8 and why is this the evil scurge it would seem to be from posts I've read by Super 8 enthusiasts.

2. Please dont kill me for this. But Why Super 8? Wouldnt a 3-CCD Mini-DV cam outperform these? Or is it for purely artistic reasons?

3. Do people normally start with Super8? I'd imagine you would waste alot of film until you learnt the Cine craft. As a photographer Im often amazed at how Cine photographers manage to take shot after shot framed beuatifully at 24 shots per second! Do most people learnt with a MiniDV before graduating to Super 8?

Your patience is appreciated

Daniel.

[S8 Booster]

won´t reply spcifically on the issues but can explain why i preffer film/s8 over DV - in 35mm photo as well.

for S8:

1) it is film. the images are truly in motion. Video is "stone dead" imagery to me.
2) simple big screen pojection at high quality and with outstanding colours
3) far better colours whether it is for direct projection or transfer
4) i like the challenge of managing the control of my images which for me:
5) also makes me more creative.

to mention a few.

some more info avail:
http://kodak.com/US/en/motion/super8/ti ... 0.10&lc=en

also take a look at the menus above - the grey bar where many of the filmmaking "secrets" are hidden.

t

[Andersens Tears]

>Im a stills photographer and as we also use Kodachrome found out about the whole K40 issue you guys are facing. I've read a few posts which I dont quite understand not being a cine guy. >

1. What is Pro-8 and why is this the evil scourge it would seem to be from posts I've read by Super 8 enthusiasts.
<<They charge a lot for what they offer, I was unimpressed with their service too. (Used the now defunct London Office)>>

2. Please dont kill me for this. But Why Super 8? Wouldnt a 3-CCD Mini-DV cam outperform these? <<NO Mini DV is a very compressed digital video format and not strictly speaking broadcast quality with around 500 lines of resolution. Apparently Super 8 has around 1100 plus lines of resolution in comparison . You can have Super 8 professional transferred and graded to DigiBeta which will be broadcast standard. (this does depend rather on what camera you use and how etc)
For the price of a basic MiniDV cam you can get a Movie Camera that has a better Lens.>>
Or is it for purely artistic reasons? <<No, it's a matter of choice and whether it suits the project or not.>>

3. Do people normally start with Super8? I'd imagine you would waste alot of film until you learnt the Cine craft. As a photographer Im often amazed at how Cine photographers manage to take shot after shot framed beuatifully at 24 shots per second! Do most people learnt with a MiniDV before graduating to Super 8?
<<Actually, learning stills photography before moving on to Super 8 is better. Video is a different discipline, although there are transferable skills.>>
My honest opinions!

Your patience is appreciated. <<No problems. Why not pick up a Super 8 camera yourself and give it a go!>>
All the best,
Andersens Tears

[kettuz]

I'm not the best one to answer these as I'm quite a newbie myself too, but I'll try...

1. Pro8mm is a company, which sells modified super-8 cameras, film and does processing and telecine. The reason for its bad reputation is caused by many things: Some people say they have received recanned film instead of new, some say their service isn't as good as it should. And well, then there is also the cost of their products. But I have no first hand information, I haven't done any business with them.

2. It's the feeling of film. It is a great feeling to know, that work I have done isn't only magnetic zeros and ones on a plastic tape. And then there is the way the film looks like, video just can't beat it. It is true, that minidv does have a greater resolution (this has been argued to death) but it is mostly the grain structure that makes film more alive and is more important to me than resolution.

3.I have begun learning with videos. And I have done most of my shootings with minidv. But if someone wants to learn cinematography and real shooting, I'd say super-8 is the best alternative (or 16mm, if one has enough money). Knowing that one is burning money with every second of shooting can teach one quite fast to shoot well

[hassan]

Wouldnt a 3-CCD Mini-DV cam outperform these?

Would a 10 mega pixel still digital camera outperform a film camera with Kodachrome?

[super8man]

Have a look at my website and see if it answers all of your questions...it should.

email me directly if you still have questions.

website below:

[snaggs]

Wouldnt a 3-CCD Mini-DV cam outperform these?

Would a 10 mega pixel still digital camera outperform a film camera with Kodachrome?

But Super-8 isnt 35mm film resolution?

Anyways, thanks for the answers... I thought that Pro8 was another 8mm format, I didn't realise it was a company!

As for picking up a Super-8 camera.. Im sorely tempted! Something to look into once I have my still printing skills down pat. Can only focus on so many things at once!

I guess a major problem with MiniDV cameras would be the Sensor sizes and the lack of DoF control that would give. However, wouldn't Super 8, being a small film format suffer those same problems? How much smaller than a 35mm frame is Super 8?

Daniel.

[PITIRRE]

Hello:

This is my opinion only and other guys in this forum can have other opinions:

1-I haven't try PRO 8MM yet, for some people it's ok for others not, but I have check their prices and yes there are more higher than other companies, even film stocks that are not PRO 8MM. But who knows maybe in the future I experiment with them.

2- I don't have nothing against video but I think if you want to make movies shoot movies instead of videos, film have more warm than video and with film you learn how to prepare yourself better for a scene because once you push the trigger there is no way back, learn film by shooting film not videos.

3- There is not wasting film on super 8, do you know that still photographers from NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC MAGAZINE use to shot the same object, person etc. several times with different f-stops, I tell you what one picture had to be ok, and that is not waste of film?

A final word, I haven't seen a professional photographer taking picture of a wedding or for a top newspaper, magazine shooting on a digital camera.
People would said, but what about the last STAR WARS film is was shoot on HDV? Yes it was shot on HDV but with a $100,000 camera

[snaggs]

Hello:
People would said, but what about the last STAR WARS film is was shoot on HDV? Yes it was shot on HDV but with a $100,000 camera

Heh, I just saw it last night, and it looked terrible to me! Overdone CGI, very fake, flat looking backgrounds. Didn't occur to me it was shot on HD!

Is it acceptable to edit Super 8 on computer afterwards? What kind of resolution do you normally scan the film in at? HD?

Can you get film scanners to do this yourself?

Daniel.

[Uppsala BildTeknik]

Wouldnt a 3-CCD Mini-DV cam outperform these?

Would a 10 mega pixel still digital camera outperform a film camera with Kodachrome?

But Super-8 isnt 35mm film resolution?

Daniel.

No, it isn´t. Neither is miniDV.

Comparing a 10 mpix digital camera to a 35mm film camera is about the same as comparing a miniDV videocamera to a 8mm filmcamera.

Or something like that, havent done any calculations but I guess it is about the same. 8)

[hassan]

Why the need to compare things, there's pro's and con's to everything. Film is film, and video is video. Not everything is a competition.

[B Movie Mogul]

Actually, quite a large number of people edit super 8 online, so I'm sure it's acceptable
I think most telecine to DV, rather than HDV. I personally would prefer not to use HDV, if I'm correct in assuming that it's still using mpeg2 compression.

Another advantage to film over DV is single frame exposure for animation, at least with some cameras.

[Patrick]

Comparison of a 3ccd mini dv camera and a super 8 camera - already much has been discussed by previous posts on the quality issues - eg no video camera would be able to reproduce the degree of colour saturation found in film. Exposure latitude is another issue. Camera features are another aspect that must be addressed. Top of the range super 8 camera models still have some advantages over consumer and semi-pro video cameras with regards to features.

For example, with video cameras that are able to do time lapse, only a small number of interval times are usually possible and brief interval times are rarely featured. However, with super 8 cameras that have built in interval timers, a much broader range of interval times can be set - usually any setting from 1 second up to 60 seconds is attainable. And like any movie camera, super 8 cameras expose single frames between intervals during time lapse whereas most video cameras simply record for a fraction of a second instead. There are even a few super 8 cameras, just like some Nizo models, that have a 'B' setting, allowing the shutter to remain open for several seconds.

Nowadays, slow motion is possible on some video camera models. However, it is argued that cine cameras produce smoother slow motion. And the degree of slow motion is variable as well. For example, some super 8 cameras may have both 36 and 54fps speeds to choose from in addition to the standard speeds. And above all, super 8 cameras that bear many of these features which I have discussed cost less than a fraction of the price of a 3CCD mini dv camera. You can't beat a bargain like that!

[B Movie Mogul]

One important thing I discovered from experimenting in camcorder time-lapse/animation is that almost all camcorders are not geared for that kind of work and wear out VERY quickly... and the repairs to mechanical innards can get pricey.

[Andersens Tears]

I guess a major problem with MiniDV cameras would be the Sensor sizes and the lack of DoF control that would give. However, wouldn't Super 8, being a small film format suffer those same problems?
Daniel.

Super 8 as a format naturally has a lot of DOF ! There is not much you can do to manipulate it. Super 8 is similar to Mini DV in the way that it is better used for close and medium shots rather than wide shots - neither cope well in these situations - grain and definition being a problem for both formats.

You have to decide on whether the format has merits for you project and if you can work within the limits. If you can, then you will be very happy!

Hope that helps,

Andersens tears