Best practices with the Video WorkPrinter

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Bazz
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Post by Bazz »

Why I always see some lens distortion in all these transfer images? Is it a constant using this machine?
Love to know more about that and how to correct it.

I think the camera version looks sharper as well. Maybe it's because it is resizing a large image into a smaller DV sized image. I know that in paint shop pro for example if you scan a picture at high resolution then resize it smaller, the sharpness will decrease. Perhaps that's it. I will try again with one of my own films, but I think it might not be such a good idea after all.

Please tell me about the lens distortion! What do I look out for?
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MovieStuff
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Post by MovieStuff »

avortex wrote:Why I always see some lens distortion in all these transfer images?
Setting up an aeriel image is not something that is done casually. Adding to the potential problem is that many people don't dedicate a camera to the transfer rig and are constantly removing it to use for other purposes. As a result, critical alignment is not always maintained.

That said, however, I keep a pretty good eye on clips posted on the internet from my machines and I would say that, while I've occasionally seen some distortion on the edges for reasons I just covered, 90% of the time the images are crisp edge to edge with no distortion, so I really don't know what you mean when you say you "always" see distortion in the transferred images. How many transfers have you seen? Can you provide specific links to the clips you are talking about? Not being defensive at all, here, just trying to pin down exactly what you are seeing.
avortex wrote:Is it a constant using this machine?
I can assure you that distortion is NOT a constant when using this machine at all. On the contrary, if you set up the camera correctly, the images are razor sharp edge to edge and corner to corner with no aberations what so ever. It's all a matter of how much time is spent during set up.

Roger
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Post by Bazz »

Roger,
Would you say the clip I posted had this distortion mentioned? I'd like to know what to look out for so I can correct it before doing too many transfers. I'd like to get the quality as best as I can. Is he talking about the general focus of the clip or something else? I chose a pre-recorded film here as I would imagine this would have no problems to start with like a home cine film would.

I try to take the time to set the camera up correctly before transfer, but if I'm not getting the best results I'd like to know.
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Post by MovieStuff »

Bazz wrote:
Why I always see some lens distortion in all these transfer images? Is it a constant using this machine?
Love to know more about that and how to correct it.....

Please tell me about the lens distortion! What do I look out for?
Hi, Barry!

The thing to remember about your WorkPrinter is that the lens of the projector, the condenser lens as well as the camera lens all work together to form one gigantic lens that provides a microscopic view of the surface of the film. As in any complicated lens, the various elements will move about in tandem to keep the image crisp. The same holds true here. One can not focus the camera and then assume that it will not have to be touched again during set up. Like wise, the projector can adjust the focus of the image as well. In fact, the adjusting the focus lever will manipulate the focus as well as the size and shape of the image.

Therefore, here is the best procedure for setting up the focus on the WorkPrinter:

This is based on the assumption that you camera has the required 12x or better optical zoom. A 10x zoom may cause problems with cropping and final alignment.

With no film in the projector, close the gate and turn on the lamp. Place the focuse lever of the projector in the vertical position to start. Put the camera on a column head tripod (to allow incremental vertical movement). Start with the camera on wide angle and place it ridiculously close to the condenser lens, like about one foot. The out put of the camera MUST be feeding into a full size monitor. Trying to use the built in LCD monitor is a waste of time. In the center of the monitor, one will see a white circle of light. Start physically moving the camera away from the condenser lens very slowly and observe the monitor. The round white dot of light will grow until the gate is visible within. As soon as you feel the circle has reached the edges of the condenser lens, stop and mark the floor with some tape where the center of the tripod is. Now continue moving the camera away from the condenser lens until the circle of light begins to close up again. Stop there and mark that spot on the floor.

You now have a "range" of where the camera can be and still see the entire gate. Place the camera in the middle of this range, which may be an entire foot for some cameras and as little as a few inches for other cameras.

Zoom the camera up to the gate but stop just short of zooming in at this point. You may notice some chromatic aberrations on the edges. Slight re-alignment of the camera up and down as well as side to side will negate these blue or amber aberrations. Moving the camera back a small amount may ALSO be necessary even IF it takes you outside the "range" that you previously marked on the floor. The reason is that zoom lenses will rearrange the elements in the lens when you zoom in, changing the dynamics of the relationship between film plane and CCD. Also, single chip cameras are much easier to align than 3 chip cameras due to the lack of prism in single CCD units.

Load some film in the projector that has a good, crisp image corner to corner. Something bright with good contrast is best. An old black and white cartoon works wonderfully! Adjust the framer knob so that the image is in the middle of the gate. At this point, attempt the initial focus with the CAMERA and NOT the projector. After focusing, note the frame lines of the film. They should be straight across with no bowing or bending (pin cushion and barrel distortion).

Now, this is the most important part: If they are not straight, then adjust the PROJECTOR focus lever (not the camera!) until the lines are straight across, EVEN IF THE IMAGE GOES OUT OF FOCUS. Remember, as noted before, the projector focus lever not only changes the focus, it can change the shape of the image. Also, remember that the camera lens is part of the equation as well. Therefore, if the image goes out of focus as a result of straightening the frame lines, focus can be easily recovered by adjusting the camera focus.

The biggest mistake most people make is adjusting the focus of projector only, when the focus can be manipulated by both the camera and projector. Once the frame lines are straighten and the camera focus is reattenuated, the image should be sharp corner to corner with no soft spots and no chromatic aberrations. If it seems close but not quite correct, move the camera back a bit. The further away (to a point) the better the image will be as longer lenses have a natural flat field characteristic that helps straighten things out.

Try this method of setting up your unit and I think you'll have better results. As I offer to all my clients wherever they are in the world, I am happy to call you and talk you through the set up one step at a time.

Roger
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Post by MovieStuff »

Bazz wrote:Roger,
Would you say the clip I posted had this distortion mentioned?
If you're referring to Donald Duck in the BMP file, I would say yes it has distortion on the edges. If you notice at the bottom of the picture, the frame line is just barely visible and it has a definate bow to it. It should be straight as an arrow across the screen. Follow the set up procedures I outlined above and start your alignment from scratch. I'm sure you'll get better results.

Roger
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Post by Bazz »

Many thanks Roger. I wasn't quite sure what avortex meant by lens distortion now I know. I have been following most of your instructions except I stopped moving the camera as soon as the full gate was visible. I have been changing the projector lens to straighten the edges of the frame but I obviously need to be a bit more careful with it. It's difficult when the monitor is not right in front of you while your trying to make adjustments. I've also got this bed in the way! The overall focus of the clip you looked at is as sharp as I've been able to get. I can't get as sharp as some of the other clips I've seen posted here, but I'll keep trying.
Many thanks again.
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Post by sigr »

Roger,

Thanks for providing the detailed setup procedure.
You now have a "range" of where the camera can be and still see the entire gate.
I find that in my case the "range" you are talking about starts at a distance between the condenser lens and camera lens of about 4 feet (1.2 m). At that point I'm almost at the extreme telephoto end of my zoom lens (25x). Can you comment on the relative pros and cons of being close to the extreme end of the zoom range?

If I wanted to reduce that distance (i.e. the 4 feet), would I need to alter the distance between the projector lens and the condenser lens/mirror assembly?

Thanks,
Sig
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Post by MovieStuff »

sigr wrote: At that point I'm almost at the extreme telephoto end of my zoom lens (25x).

If I wanted to reduce that distance (i.e. the 4 feet), would I need to alter the distance between the projector lens and the condenser lens/mirror assembly?
Hi, Sig!

Yes. On the eariler WorkPrinters, I had the condenser lens closer and also had longer mounting tabs for the condenser lens element. Together, this made for a smaller image in the lens. I now have the condenser lens further away by a few inches and also use smaller mounting tabs to allow for a larger projected image. Together, these two minor changes made HUGE differences in the camera to lens distance. I believe you have one of the original lenses with the plastic mounting tabs. Remove the lens and clip the tabs back so that they protrude into the opening by only about 3/8ths of an inch or less. Then reassemble the lens and remount it further down the board. I currently mount the projector further back so you may find that the lens will hang off the end of the mounting board. Feel free to remount the projector on a new board, using the old one as a template. There is a limit to how much you can really move the condenser lens away from the projector but a few inches can reduce the distance of the camera by a foot or more.

Roger
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Post by Bazz »

It didn't ocure to me to ask Roger whether he could supply a USB mouse when I ordered my Workprinter, so I was thinking of buying a cheap USB mouse and modifying it for use with the Workprinter as it would be much easier to plug it in the front of my computer when I need it, and leave my main mouse plugged in the PS2 socket at the back. Does anyone know whether you can have 2 mice connected at the same time or would I still have to crawl around the back of my computer and unplug the PS2 one and therefore defeat the object?

This is not really a film question is it? sorry about that, I hope it's not too off topic.
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Post by jessh »

Bazz wrote:Does anyone know whether you can have 2 mice connected at the same
I have done it before with no problems, although it may depend on your version of windows and particular setup. I can't say which versions of windows it worked for me on....

~Jess
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Post by Bazz »

Thanks Jess. (I'm using XP Home by the way).
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Two Mice

Post by digvid »

Bazz -

I routinely use two mice on my systems without any problems. My systems are Windows 2000 SP3 and Windows XP Pro SP1. My main mouse is USB and my WorkPrinter mouse is the PS/2 mouse supplied by Roger. I also took the trackball out of the WorkPrinter mouse so that I only have to worry about moving my main (cordless) USB mouse.

After plugging in the second mouse, I did have to reboot my machine, but that's all I had to do. I feel sure this should work for you on Windows XP Home edition.

- Jeff D.
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Post by Bazz »

Many thanks Jeff, I'll have to give it a go at modifying one when I get some spare time. At the moment all my spare time is spent doing film transferes!
Thanks again.

On another note, a lot of the films I'm starting to transfer are fairly demanding. They are family films shot in the 70s and early 80s. The 8mm camera used had a broken light meter and so it was all guess work. There are a lot of under-exposed shots. I transfered a film tonight where the camera panned from bright areas to dark areas. I was getting frustrated with not being able to get the exposure right. In the end I wound the film back and shot the whole thing on auto-exposure. Is this generally considered a bad thing to do? It came out better than I expected, though some scenes were still far too dark to deal with but there's nothing I can do there. On the scenes where the original camera exposure was set right, it looks pretty good. I only wish my Dad had shot longer scenes rather than lots of very short clips! There's a lot more camera shake than I thought as well. Having said that, I'm just glad he filmed them at all.
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Post by avortex »

Moviestuff,

I was refering to the pictures that I've seen on this topic and the pictures that Andreas posted in another page of his workprinter service. I saw some lens distortion on the edges of the pics, but now I know why. Thanks for the explanation! :wink:
Marc
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Post by Deke »

Hello - I thought I would wake up this old thread vs. starting a new one. I recently purchased a Workprinter then upgraded it to a DV Sniper (single CCD). I am not a pro and am doing all this to manage nearly 200 reg and super 8 family movies. Roger is a great guy and I feel like I have pestered him with too many newby questions! Does this man's patience ever end? :-)

I think I have everything under my belt now, but I thought I would write a message here. I guess I am particularly interested in any fellow Macintosh, CaptureMate and Final Cut Pro users out there with workprinters and/or snipers who might have tips to share.

What can I offer? Hmmm. Well, let's see... I just got a Canopus AD converter and it is really nice - big improvement over my aging Dazzle. I am using a higher quality silver composite video cable from the CCD camera to the AD box, and that almost made a bigger improvement than the the new AD box! Final Cuts broadcast safe and color correcting tools seem to be doing nice things with my captures, but getting brightness contrast + proc amp to work takes more patience. What else? Since I have so many films to manage, I created a nice little database of all my reels. They are indexed to death, so I can easily query the db for different subjects. Like "Show all reels with little brother and mom on Christmas or Halloween between 1968 and 1972, but without cousin Frank..." I did this in File Maker, but it would be as easy to do the same with Access on a PC (please note, I am not a Mac snob - I have PCs too!).
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